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Necromancer design discussion

What is your opinion on the Necromancer design?

  • Perfect as is

    Votes: 19 22.4%
  • Needs a few minor tweaks

    Votes: 46 54.1%
  • Needs major changes

    Votes: 15 17.6%
  • Scrap it and go back to the drawing board

    Votes: 5 5.9%

  • Total voters
    85

azra

Warden
WFTO Backer
Jan 18, 2013
26
4
160
#61
I mostly just dont like the jaw bone armour, imo it looks a bit silly and unnecessary. at the very least it's too huge. I think a lot of the little bone decorations are a bit unnecessary too maybe, apart from that I like it. I reckon it'll look a bit less cartoony in-game. I think that's my main concern. I don't want to feel like I'm playing a game for 6-12 year olds with disney-style monsters but maybe my worries are a bit ott? :)

Maybe have the lower jaw a bit smaller so it's more of a neck decoration rather than chest armour?
and maybe a few less horns and things sticking out of him and more flowing robes?

I do quite like the bold style of the characters. At least theyre not boring and trite. we dont want a stereotypical necromancer really do we.
 

Mozared

Juggernaut
WFTO Founder
Feb 17, 2013
1,132
836
520
29
#72
As an ex-Nox player (fucking LOVED that game), I can safely say you need to see him in action to get a scope of what he's like. Rather than an evil zombie-leading half-dead guy, the Nox Necromancer was an evil mosquito/lizard-like 'anklebiter' demon that ran circles around you and messed with your controls through confusion spells and such. There were zombies of course, but they were used to distract you from the Necromancer himself who, when hit, was actually relatively frail.

It's a completely different concept from what we have here, but you definitely wouldn't call the buggers 'Kiss fans' if you had faced them in the game. They were some of the toughest enemies to deal with through their annoying mobility, hordes of distracting zombies and messy debuffs.
 
Likes: HermanK

HermanK

Priestess
WFTO Backer
Mar 2, 2013
118
44
200
34
South Africa
#73
As an ex-Nox player (fucking LOVED that game), I can safely say you need to see him in action to get a scope of what he's like. Rather than an evil zombie-leading half-dead guy, the Nox Necromancer was an evil mosquito/lizard-like 'anklebiter' demon that ran circles around you and messed with your controls through confusion spells and such. There were zombies of course, but they were used to distract you from the Necromancer himself who, when hit, was actually relatively frail.

It's a completely different concept from what we have here, but you definitely wouldn't call the buggers 'Kiss fans' if you had faced them in the game. They were some of the toughest enemies to deal with through their annoying mobility, hordes of distracting zombies and messy debuffs.
I'm glad someone is on the same page, only an Ex-Nox player will understand. he remains for me the most memorable necromancer i have faced in gaming, partly because he was a MAJOR pain in the ass!

getting back to WFTO necromancer - I've done some brief reading and a necromancer is essentially a practitioner of dark arts and can perform various spells on the dead etc. For the most part - the actual necromancer is essentially alive (not undead). once again i am left questioning where the character design is going... which is why i felt the necromancer from NOX or Diablo 2 is more realistic.
 

Castigator

Gargoyle
WFTO Backer
Dec 30, 2012
433
237
305
Germany
#74
I said before, that the current necromancer's biggest problem is his equipment. The designer got the themes right, but the current visual design doesn't live up to the crypt's superior visuals. The crypt strikes me as the place, where the necromancers study the secrets of their craft, reanimate the dead and hold seances. They can do all this in relative seclusion and they don't need to fear the wrath of these overzealous inquisitors. They get their money from you, so it's more hospitality, than they could expect on the surface.
To better explain what went wrong, I'll try to outline what went right first: The necromancer is someone, who conjures and communes with the dead. As such, he has access to the secrets of life and death, which are probably pretty interesting, but time consuming, so the necromacer is unlikely to spend much time inside a gym and prefers the company of ancient tomes, or better, the authour's spirits. The frail looking undead husk represents this well.
If the necromancer had the physique of the hulk, the character designer would win a free ticket back to the drawing board.
The necromancer has a strong bone theme going on with him, which makes sense, as bones are the material, which the necromancer has the easiest access to. Bones can come in many shapes and sizes. It fits the theme if the necromancer uses this material to improve his robe's protection and as a material for his staff.
The skillset fits well, thematically and tells us, that the necromancer is not somone, who relies on his physical strength to take down his enemies. Instead, he delegates the fighting to his small army of ghouls and fallen enemies and merely coordinates their attacks, acting as the brain, his minions lack. His own fighting skills range from abysmal, if 'Mark for Death' deals damage, to nonexistant.
This isn't a bad thing and reinforces my first impression, that the necromancer is more of a scholar, than a fighter.
I also like the bag in which he collects interesting parts of his enemies, for later use in the next undead minion. It's a little detail I can appreciate.
With this in mind, we can see, why he feels comfortable inside your crypt. He has a vast supply of dead bodies to reanimate, the whispers of the deceased to keep him company and the peace and quiet to craft things from bones.
The visual design of the concept art struggles to communicate that in its current form.
While it captures the basic elements, it doesn't give you the right impression. The artwork bears too much resemlance to a mentally instable voodoo priest and the lower jawbone doesn't fit. It looks too cumbersome and gives our necromancer a cartoony look, that won't fit his image as the master of the undead. The skull helmet, however is mostly fine, and can make an impressive headdress.
One possible way to imrove his design might be to cover his chest. Not because he would get a cold, since he already chose undeath to study the dark magics for eternity. But he could use some of the limited protection, that such a step offers.
It might also help to change the appearance of his robe from the rough and makeshift design to something more sophisticated.
In conclusion, the necromancer needs help. He found all the important themes, that are needed to make him a deep and valuable minion, but slipped up, when he assembled his equipment.
To help him out of his misery, we could assist him with the choice of a new outfit. I'm sure you have some good examples of robes, that say evil, when you behold them. - figuratively of course.
 

Haze

Disciple
Mar 31, 2013
91
17
140
35
Moscow, Russia
#75
I agree,they going with the cute look,like its some facebook game. . .Is the game made for teens? or adults who grew up playing Dk and Dk2. . .The art style leaves me with taste of dungeons and impire.
Just looking at the Necro and Chunder I expect the humor to be casual and cartoony instead of dark.
This is truly a global-scale problem (especially shown in chunder design). Room design is OK, though.

For example: do you know, why necromancers wear robes? Because their work is often dirty. This necro is doing window-dressing. A little bit of show-off and cartoony-grotesque is definitely good, but this much...
 

The_Pastmaster

Blood Imp
WFTO Backer
Feb 24, 2013
2
1
5
#76
This one will speak now.

The necromancer looks fine for a practitioner of the dark arts of making puppets out of flesh and bone, IF that is its purpose. A necromancer researches Death. Some times to avoid it, other times to embrace it, and a few times to learn from it. But why one should seek to avoid the pleasant tunes of Death is not something me and I understand well.
Raising armies of fleshy and bony puppets is not all a genuine death conjurer can do. They can siphon your soul, twist your mind, make your body cold with Death or warm with Life. They are masters at reanimating objects as are other... "Nobler" wizards, but instead if bringing automatons of metal armour to life though complex spells and incantation, the necromancer uses simpler methods to create guardians and warriors of her own in much the same fashion.

And before I forget; while the stereotype of voodoo and vodou has a long tradition of being used for necromancy and other beloved acts of evil, I feel it best to let the prejudice and misconceptions against it lay to rest as most of them are not true thus just proves that someone has, yet again, not done their proper research.

Me and I have spoken. Let our words be heard and statements made. We are listening.
 

Fireeye

Augre
WFTO Backer
Dec 30, 2012
1,155
687
515
Ze Germany
#77
I'm still strongly against a Necromancer that essentially is some evil guy wearing hooded dark robes. We have seen this concept in a metric ton of generic fantasy games and personally I long for some fresh breath of air in that regard. The current concept of the Necromancer may need some slight tweaks here and there, but I don't think a complete rework is necessary.
 

Tommonius

Necromancer
WFTO Backer
Dec 15, 2012
616
247
400
30
Wolverhampton
#78
I'm still strongly against a Necromancer that essentially is some evil guy wearing hooded dark robes. We have seen this concept in a metric ton of generic fantasy games and personally I long for some fresh breath of air in that regard. The current concept of the Necromancer may need some slight tweaks here and there, but I don't think a complete rework is necessary.
Plus as I think a writter stated, the Cultist already has the robe theme and they do not want to amny units to look the same, their has to be some divergence.
 

Hejoba

Warden
WFTO Backer
Jan 14, 2013
30
19
175
#79
hee looks greate but the helmet.
Maybe just a collar that covered chin and mouth.
And maybe on his head a few but very long hair.
 

Goodkatt

Bloodling
WFTO Backer
Feb 23, 2013
13
13
65
#80
I like the concept, but it's just not quite what I think of when someone says necromancer. Here's my attempt at constructive criticism:

Pros:
-Hidden face, definitely a must. Someone who practices the dark arts and bends death to their will has to be dark and shadowy. Their face should be hidden by a mask, or a helm or a cowl. Be it to preserve their anonymity from the Inquisition or perhaps their practices have left their mark on his flesh, but yes face should be hidden

- I like the bone armor. Someone who spends their life studying and taming death should be wrapped in their obsession. It also gives them a unique and distinctive look on the battle field.

- Staff. Necromancers have to have a staff of some description. Be it a bone staff with a glowing skull on top, a gnarled wooden staff from some dead, twisted tree or even a huge scythe (just an idea), they need something to channel their dark magics into the corpses of their minions.

Cons: (Sorry! I know how much work goes into these things and it's an amazing design but this is just my 2 cents)
- It looks a bit too tribal/shaman/witch doctor. I know that we're trying to get away from the standard dark robes and hooded cloak but I consider necromancers to be the dark masters of death who can will life back into the decaying bodies of the slain. This is an art which would take years of practice and hard work, I think the look needs to be slightly more academic and just needs a bit more presence. I don't want to think that any local witch doctor can learn the skills to raise the dead.

- More evil! Necromancers are masters of the dark arts, they flirt with death, they command the fallen. This guy just looks a little bit too happy and cute to command legions of the damned. I think necromancers were born to wear pitch black and eerie green. And the body tone and build even makes it look slightly like a Gnarling who has just found a new set of clothes.

Overall, I like the new direction but think it just needs a few changes. Make it darker and a bit more evil, I think you could do this mainly with the colour scheme, more dark and sinister. if it was slightly less tribal too I think it would look incredible, I just prefer the dark and mysterious incantations of an evil scholar to the bone shaking cries of a shaman. And if the body didn't look like a scrawny Gnarling - I think you'd be on to a winner.

Just an opinion though! Great work guys, so excited to see it!
 
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