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The doors discussion

Psycix

Dryad
WFTO Founder
Jan 9, 2013
834
305
395
#41
Because you already spend money, defence parts and efforts on building the doors. Wooden doors and even porticulli are weak and having them keep enemies out automatically is expected from them to do.
This just adds an annoying extra step that most people will have to apply almost every time. Compared to DK doors, why do doors need to be nerfed like this?

EDIT:
not on every door, only on doors you want it to be applied to.
My point is that this is basically almost every door.
 
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Likes: GummiBear

Alfador

Disciple
Jan 7, 2013
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alfas-blog.tumblr.com
#42
Imagine my surprise when I saw Lord O'Tealand's soldiers march past my traps and eventually doors. I actually thought it was a bug. Their doors closed on my minions face, and mine didn't? Then I saw them attack the open door. It was clearly a bug to me now... that is, until their troops suddenly started marching straight to the Dungeonheart past all the "open" doors...

In DK1 open doors did allow minions to pass, as I remember by the annoying fly that spent minutes hacking at my iron doors until an imp decided to take a walk; while in DK2 the doors blocked enemies despite being open or closed (it's visual aspect was more for your information on it's mode). The doors are there to temporarily hinder invaders, or keep weak minions away (like the annoying tile claiming imp), not to make a turntable event, so there's no real sense in making it actually useful through a clickable option or even an upgrade. They should close automatically when an enemy is close, opening only when a bloodthirsty minion decides to open it to waste his life, or when you so desire (with a dutiful slap for instance). I mean, even traps already waste your mana as it is, having more than 5 imps does as well, so the last thing we need is for doors to be useful to also waste a rather finite resource. Midas door does seems to be an exception on it's possible modes.

Repeating what was referenced before, as soon as we build a door, we expect it to not be part of the scenery, nor increase room efficiency, but rather do it's job upon construction: to hinder enemy movement and give us an extra time to spot the incoming invasion, or prepare for it when it's assaulting the Dungeon's bowels. This micromanagement is quite unneeded, specially when we're having assaults on several fronts; which is why we have the ability to customize Rally flags, no? :)

Unless there's a special max-mana increasing vault, even traps shouldn't really lock mana (a big flaw in DK2), but rather use mana to activate, making the possibility of having dozens of traps viable, just not working\firing at the same time. This would allow us to compose more on the Dungeon Building category, and avoid cluttering all the rooms, by having extra trapped corridors and defense niches. But this is another topic.

As it is, mana spending on traps is already incredibly high, no need for the common doors to consume it as well.
 
Jan 18, 2014
11
0
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Parts Unknown
#43
My personal opinion is that doors should work exactly like in the old DK games. If I build a door, I expect it to keep out my enemies, not just be there for the sake of having a door.

There is a case to be made for both approaches and I understand the need for more strategic play, with the ability to trap enemies between rooms and split them up and whatnot. But the way I see it, this system utterly invalidates the basic wooden door. Why build it in the first place? Either you micro it and MAYBE get some value out of it or you leave it open and it might as well just not be there.

Much of it can also be attributed to balance issues and traps being utterly and completely useless but this can be easily fixed.

tl;dr I want normal doors that keep the bad guys out while I'm trying to build up my defenses behind said door. Or at the absolute very least, the doors should scare away imps, it's ridiculous.
 

Mekmek

Bloodling
Feb 15, 2014
10
4
75
22
#45
There could also be an impasse that functions for all your creatures. This would remove the need for doors to have an always locked option, as you would just place the flag instead of a door.

Admittedly this is something I've only just thought of, and might be flawed in some critical way I haven't considered.
 

Alfador

Disciple
Jan 7, 2013
50
18
155
33
alfas-blog.tumblr.com
#46
Always locked doors has a fun need. One of the most entertaining ones was to force creatures to work indefinitely, miss payday, food, sleep, in essence, slave them for their work and cut their basic needs and comforts for extra efficiency. They might get angry, but that would eventually pass. And if it doesn't just torture them a little. Now that's being evil.

Micromanaging doors is way annoying, specially if they're protecting your Dungeon Heart and only your Imps go there, to deposit gold... why do I have to force lock them? Yeah I have alternatives, like the Vortex and build walls and not doors, but there's more to our dungeon than it's Heart, just about every entrance and corridor.
 

Fireeye

Augre
WFTO Backer
Dec 30, 2012
1,155
687
515
Ze Germany
#47
Imho at least wooden doors should open/close automatically without an added mana cost or something like that. As of right now, these things are to fragile to pose any serious obstruction to enemies, so forcing you to actually babysit them makes them entirely useless.

Whether this should also hold true for the sturdier portcullis or the Midas door is debatable, but I think we can agree that at least the glacial doors should have to be manually closed and opened due to its specific mechanic.
 
Nov 13, 2013
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#48
Imho at least wooden doors should open/close automatically without an added mana cost or something like that. As of right now, these things are to fragile to pose any serious obstruction to enemies, so forcing you to actually babysit them makes them entirely useless.

Whether this should also hold true for the sturdier portcullis or the Midas door is debatable, but I think we can agree that at least the glacial doors should have to be manually closed and opened due to its specific mechanic.
I agree, the wooden door should be automatic. I think the Midas should be manual though, because it could potentially be a liability on your gold reserves and the player should have a way to keep enemy units from taking his gold without selling the door. I also think the porticullis(in its current state) should also be automatic without drawbacks since it is ridiculously overcosted right now.

I understand why all the doors are automatic. Because in very niche situations, it allows you to trap enemy units, and to allow more interesting door mechanics such as the Midas door and the glacial door. However, the only doors with the toughness that lets them hold enemy armies for more then 5 seconds are the Midas door and the glacial door, and those doors should remain open/close because of their mechanics. While being consistent with all the doors to make it easier for new players is good, I think it clear from this thread that using consistent door mechanics is hurting the game in other ways. It is placing a frustrating and seemingly unnecessary micro-burden on players just to allow one niche defensive strategy with doors that are extremely bad at that strategy. I really don't think that making wooden doors and portcullises automatic while leaving Midas doors and glacials doors would be too confusing to new players, especially once some good tool tips are added which could easily explain the difference. :)
 

RedBat

Dwarven Worker
Apr 14, 2015
14
0
20
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#49
I agree, the wooden door should be automatic. I think the Midas should be manual though, because it could potentially be a liability on your gold reserves and the player should have a way to keep enemy units from taking his gold without selling the door. I also think the porticullis(in its current state) should also be automatic without drawbacks since it is ridiculously overcosted right now.

I understand why all the doors are automatic. Because in very niche situations, it allows you to trap enemy units, and to allow more interesting door mechanics such as the Midas door and the glacial door. However, the only doors with the toughness that lets them hold enemy armies for more then 5 seconds are the Midas door and the glacial door, and those doors should remain open/close because of their mechanics. While being consistent with all the doors to make it easier for new players is good, I think it clear from this thread that using consistent door mechanics is hurting the game in other ways. It is placing a frustrating and seemingly unnecessary micro-burden on players just to allow one niche defensive strategy with doors that are extremely bad at that strategy. I really don't think that making wooden doors and portcullises automatic while leaving Midas doors and glacials doors would be too confusing to new players, especially once some good tool tips are added which could easily explain the difference. :)
I agree with you both, the weaker doors should be on automatic while the bigger ones should be controlled manually. However, it would be very interesting to se an option in skirmish mode to alternate this things, door mechanics etc.
 
May 28, 2015
212
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#50
I think if we look at dungeons 2 they have a perfect door system. every door auto open's closes when own units are passing trough. yet stay closed when enemies are near... However clicking on them locks them down so no one can get trough the door unless destroyed.

i understand the tactics the dev's talk about to trap enemy units however:
1- an open door gets attacked just as a closed one
2- don't we have the option to hide the blade lotus for this kind of tactics?

I am not even sure if people will actuallyb use the tactic of trapping enemies and if they do the blade lotus is perfect for that.
The mana lock would only be needed for more advanced doors like glacial door and maybe when more doors are goign to be introduced to the game (a damaging door is on my wishlist...)
 
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