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About Horny

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Reia

Priestess
Jan 19, 2013
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#1
I was always watching the progression of this game from the shadows. But when I read a small discussion about Horny in the threads I had to write this.

There are 3 reasons why I prefer DK1 to DK2:
-DK1 had dragons in it! (I know some people may argue about that being a good thing but I don't care! I LOVE DRAGONS! :p )
-DK1 was much darker than DK2.
-DK1 had Horny as a unit.

Horny being a unit made all the difference to me. Not only did DK2 turn Horny into a spell, but they also gave him human traits, which is unforgivable for me. That is exactly how he is NOT supposed to be. In DK1 Horny was a wild animal you had to tame and use his overwhelming power to annihilate your enemies. I remember the first time I got Horny, he turned against me and started to fight against all my other monsters at once. I was so impressed that I started laughing. Compare that to the DK2 spell where he just ignores your minions and goes straight to your opponent... boring isn't it?

My point is, the thing that made Horny interesting in the first place was his uncontrollable power. Of course in WftO you can not use him. But a DK game without a super monster unit like our beloved Horny takes away half of the fun. I think this unit should be a natural catastrophe that can easily give hell to both you and your enemies. I wouldn't mind him being an insane masochist that lives just to wreck havoc. A unit that you fear, respect and love at the same time. A unit that can be a blessing and a curse. A unit that is hard to get (rituals, sacrifices, special events, whatever...) and that you can hardly satisfy. I don't care if it's a big bulky ferocious beast that can't even get past small hallways or if it's a tiny mean flea that kills enemies without them even realizing it...

That is all I want from a spiritual successor of Dungeon Keeper.

PS: I'm not saying that DK2 is a bad game at all. DK2 made the traps much more interesting which is a big plus for me.

PPS: Forgive my mistakes, I am not a native English speaker.
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#2
Horny remains uncontrollable power mostly in DK2, rather than in DK1. In DK1 you could have 2 or more hornies, simply have a separated lair, hatchery, treasury and training room. In DK2, he is a creature with own AI wich will deplete your mana after one minute. So if you compare them both - you had less control over Horny in DK2 than DK1. Also in DK2 he was a unique unit, while in DK1 he was simply a spoiled beast.
 
#3
While I find the concept you're arguing for rather neat, the harnessing of an almost elemental force which can have both vastly positive and terribly negative effects upon you; I personally loved the evolution of Horny. He became a character, a person, and story wise it allowed for a much richer world and much richer storytelling. I loved the character, I loved his personality and I loved him as the leader of this uprising from the underworld. He would charge into battle leading the troops.
And as much as I like your ideas, continued growth in storytelling and characterization will always trump a gameplay mechanic for me.
 

Reia

Priestess
Jan 19, 2013
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#4
I know what you mean. But still, I believe that the best way to tell a story is through the gameplay itself. Rather than having someone introducing and describing the characters, you can get to know them by playing them which has a much bigger impact IMHO because they directly influence the game.
 

Reia

Priestess
Jan 19, 2013
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#5
Horny remains uncontrollable power mostly in DK2, rather than in DK1. In DK1 you could have 2 or more hornies, simply have a separated lair, hatchery, treasury and training room. In DK2, he is a creature with own AI wich will deplete your mana after one minute. So if you compare them both - you had less control over Horny in DK2 than DK1. Also in DK2 he was a unique unit, while in DK1 he was simply a spoiled beast.
Interesting point, I never thought of it that way. I do agree that having more than one can destroy the illusion of a unique super powerful creature. But I had a much deeper relation to Horny in DK1 because I directly interacted with him.. kind of like how you keep a pet, learn what it likes and what it doesn't, it's character, etc... this kind of interaction creates a bond between you and the creature which makes it much more personal.
 

Badwolf699

Ember Demon
WFTO Founder
Dec 18, 2011
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#6
Leveled up he was like a tank, but when it came to domestic siuations he became a whining little bitch.
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#7
Interesting point, I never thought of it that way. I do agree that having more than one can destroy the illusion of a unique super powerful creature. But I had a much deeper relation to Horny in DK1 because I directly interacted with him.. kind of like how you keep a pet, learn what it likes and what it doesn't, it's character, etc... this kind of interaction creates a bond between you and the creature which makes it much more personal.
If you think of it, Horny became more than just a creature - an Avatar of Keeper himself. Although you no longer could pet him, he became a force feared not only by enemy creatures but by enemy Keepers themselves.

Consider it a job promotion from mere assistant to some kind-of vice president of Keeper's dungeon. :3
 
Jun 27, 2012
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#10
DK1 was darker, I didnt like most of the silly cutscenes in DK2. Horned Reaper looked great at the intro and outro though. And I like his interview.

But the point being, having a strong but difficult to please creature is great to have in the game. He was not unbeatable either, he had the right amount of power. Strong enough to put up with his demands, yet still you could win without him using other strong creatures, you didnt have to have him to win.
Aside perhaps the final level where the enemy keeper lures away all your vampires.

What I personly like to see however, is weaker creatures being less demanding, and the more powerfull the creature is, the harder they are to handle. It makes sense, they have power and they know it. It could be through higher wages, a bad temper, refusing to work with other types of creatures in the workshop or library, etc. It gives a nice drawback to that power.

The difficulties of running the dungeon added charm to dungeon keeper, in part 2 this did get a bit lost since all creatures where rather mellow compared to the horned reaper, and they didnt fight each other anymore. they just cried when around a creature they didnt like.
 
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TheButcher

Priestess
WFTO Backer
Jan 13, 2013
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Ireland
#12
Obviously Horny is owed by EA games so they cannot bring him back to the WTFO series. I liked the idea of a 'enemy to all' creature lurking in the caves.

If you want a special type creature and controlled, you could always limit that type of creature to 1 per keeper which could have negative or positive effects to your dungeon, even locking him away he/she could try bash the locked doors down etc.

Some kind of evil spirit with an axe and casting powers would suit this ->
 
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sorudo

Gargoyle
WFTO Backer
Jan 3, 2013
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building my dungeon
#13
i actually like the DK2 one more because it's a creature i can use to take down annoying points, in DK1 i mostly just destroy the creature because i have no need for creatures that destroys my dungeon with it.
also in DK1 he just doesn't look that evil, in DK2 he has a kind of sinister look and the design actually looks like it would work IRL.

in WftO we need something like a death angle as champion, one that walks around with a scythe and is pretty fast on it's....well, it doesn't really have feat but you get the drift.
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#14
It could be a powerful underworld demon, with wings, cool looking weapon and armor and animation. Don't forget about Heroes - they too could have someone, like powerful knight with large magic sword, enchanted armor and cape with Outworld Kingdom Seal on it.
 

Lord of Riva

The Lord
WFTO Founder
Dec 29, 2012
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#15
im against such a powerful creature , it makes balancing nearly impossible. the way they are going is better , tring to balance things (at least how they said they want it)
 
Jun 27, 2012
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#20
I'd suggest using a red or black dragon as such a minion.

I really prefer more classical fantasy instead of all kinds of over the top magical things.
 
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