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Cheat codes/Map editor

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Insantyz, Apr 5, 2015.

?

Do we want cheat codes?

  1. Yes

    66.7%
  2. No

    33.3%
  1. Insantyz
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    Insantyz Gnarling

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    Hey, what happened to cheat codes? Will we get some and if yes, to which extent?

    I'm not asking for cheats to be used in multiplayer, only on Campaign and in Skirmish and yes, achievements can be turned off if cheats are used.

    And when will Map Editor arrive and will we be able to change the campaign missions like we were in Dungeon Keeper 2?

    Darkest greetings!
     
  2. Dunger Keeper
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    Dunger Keeper Dwarven Worker

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    You can use the cheats. click F2 and then write **. to see the cheat list write /?.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2015
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  3. Randy19
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    Randy19 Bafu

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    Cool. removed is the password? Thanks for the info!

    When the Map Editor will arrive is unknown yet. It might still be a little while.

    And i seriously doubt that we will be able to trade out campaign missions.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2015
  4. Slichizard
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    Slichizard Bard

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    You do realize these cheats will ruin your campaign experience? It's simply not worth it.
     
  5. Dunger Keeper
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    Dunger Keeper Dwarven Worker

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    for level 8, it is worth it :)
     
  6. Randy19
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    Randy19 Bafu

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    But some of these cheats might do wonders to circumvent some bugs. I'm not going to do the whole crypt level again just because that last door bugs out on me.
     
  7. Slichizard
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    Slichizard Bard

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    Level 8 is already extremely easy. I completed it like in 10 minutes. You just need to go up and kill everything on your way. Probably the simplest level in campaign except lvl1 and lvl2.
     
  8. Dunger Keeper
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    Dunger Keeper Dwarven Worker

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    Maybe, but i just can't keep playing on that lvl more than 1-2 minutes. when the creatures just doing whatever they like and not attacking each other.
     
  9. Slichizard
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    Slichizard Bard

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    Use rally flag maybe? Also cast Enrage on Necromancers and Ghouls for higher damage.
     
  10. Randy19
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    Randy19 Bafu

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    As said, it helps with bugs. And to be honest: Why not let people decide if it's worth it for them? As long as they don't cheat in Multiplayer where they put others at a disadvantage they can do what they want. If they like plaiyng with cheats why not let them? It's not your decision what is fun to others.
     
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  11. Slichizard
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    Slichizard Bard

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    This game is already short on it's own. Beating it with console commands like these simply kills the purpose of playing it.
     
  12. Nutter
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    Nutter Inquisitor Founder

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    Because they're not actual cheat codes, they're debug commands, which can break/lag/crash the game if used incorrectly, they were put behind a password (which is now going to need to be changed) for a reason. Wouldn't you rather the devs were able to fix bugs, rather than having to change debug passwords because people are abusing them?
     
  13. Randy19
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    Randy19 Bafu

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    If after using said password there is a warning that no support will be taken for problems caused by cheatcodes... why not? Why change the password? Why not let people?

    As i said as long as the multiplayer is not involved in this, it doesn't really matter what people do with their games. One or two may cheat on some achievements but really, is it such a big deal? Will that be any different when there actually are some actual cheatcodes?

    I would deem changing the password a tiny priority. But yes i'd rather have them clear some bugs than change useless passwords. For the Records: During the Bedrockbeta using the console was a nice way to test some specific bugs out. And find some too.


    But ultimately it's your decision as the minds behind the game.

    To me your post seems mostly one of these standards "I don't like cheats so i don't want anyone using any ever. If it's no fun to me it's not supposed to be fun to anyone else" posts. If that is the case grow up, people can like what they want.

    If there is any deeper meaning to this, as in, someone using this cheat causing massive havoc all across the whole system for every player out there then i apologize. I just really don't see a big deal with this. At least not while the game is as buggy as it is and those commands are the only way to progress at times.
     
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  14. Insantyz
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    Insantyz Gnarling

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    Why thank you my lord!
     
  15. Nutter
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    Nutter Inquisitor Founder

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    Ok;

    1. You do see the "QA Lead" title under my name right? I don't like pulling rank, but i'm not just another average community member opposing your right to use cheats for the sake of it, and it is not a case of "I don't like cheats so i don't want anyone using any ever. If it's no fun to me it's not supposed to be fun to anyone else".
    Let's be clear, I don't have any problem with people cheating, heck I put cheat codes in most of my own personal projects, but what you've stumbled across aren't cheats, and are not supposed to be used as cheats.

    2. Using any of the debug commands will stop achievements being awarded anyway, you're not gaining anything.

    3. We have proper/official "cheats" in the game, in the form of artifacts for you to find... yes it takes a little bit more exploring, but it's a nice reward for doing so. And they don't stop you earning achievements either.

    4. Playing the game with cheats not only ruins your own experience, but also means you don't see the game as the devs wanted you to, you miss out on seeing their vision of the game, making the effort they put into making it kinda wasted.

    The debug console is locked behind a password (which is now changed and will take affect in the next patch) for a reason, because certain parts of it can break the game, let me give you an example:

    You can entirely remove the fog of war via a debug command, as a cheat this is helpful yes.. but it also means that suddenly your PC has to render everything on the entire map at once, as opposed to just bits you can see, massively increasing CPU load which can cause lag and in worse cases, crashes.

    They also presumably would work in multiplayer if someone has access to the debug commands, killing any chance of a fair fight if someone can cheat so easily, and nobody wants that.

    I hope those answers/reasons satisfy you as the "deeper meaning" and not just me being the "you're cheating i'm going to tell on you" guy, because I don't like being that guy, at all.

    So i'll again, ask people nicely to stop abusing the debug console, please enjoy the game was it was intended (or rather will be intended once the bugs are ironed out).
    Because yes changing a password only takes a couple of minutes, but if the devs have to keep doing it over and over because people keep discovering the new password and start abusing the console again, that time adds up and it's time they can't spend on more important stuff like fixing bugs. I do understand that they seem like a great solution if you've hit a nasty bug and it might fix the solution, but it can just as easily make things worse and they also might just delay fixing that nasty bug too.
     
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  16. Lord of Riva
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    Lord of Riva The Lord Founder

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    The only reason to prohibit cheating at this moment is that it is in a incomplete state. nobody is planning to dictate anyone on how to play a singleplayer game. please refrain from fighting about if cheating is wrong in a singleplayer game, it serves no purpose, thank you very much
     
  17. Randy19
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    Randy19 Bafu

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    I suppose i can agree to point 1 and 4. At least to the "not seeing the game as the devs wanted you to" part. Not the "It ruins your expirience" part because that's, still, a matter of taste. Though to be fair the example in part 1 does, especially in the campaign, often happen anyway, and might be the number one source of most crashes right now, even without the console. I'd assume that's due to a memory leak though. A game build arround exploring usually shouldn't crash if you explore everything. That's just my opinion though.

    Point 3 is a pretty good joke though. Don't get me wrong, artifacts are a fun addition to the game and i like that system. But they are as far from cheating as finding a new weapon in a First-Person-Shooter. Cheat Codes are per definition Codes you enter to unlock unfair advantages. Be it beeing invincible, spawning new units, or getting a ton of gold to buy whatever you want. Little and completely balanced advantages like getting exactely two spirit workers are a nice touch to the game, but surely not cheating.


    On a sidenote: Yes i read your title. It's impressive, really, i'm really gratefull to you guys working so hard, but i didn't think that made your personal opinion untouchable to anyone "below your rank" as you put it. I thought you're still a human beeing(or at least something that was a human beeing before you used that dark ritual in the sanctuary!) that can lead a constructive discussion. On the other hand i've been awake for a while and getting sleepy so i might just be dumb right now.

    I guess all in all i just don't understand the big deal. But as i am not one of the developers i don't need to understand it either. I totally trust that the team behind the game know what's best for their game. And if they decide locking the console is best then i can live with that. I just don't understand it.


    I can live with Rivas statement that at this point the cheating is just unfinished, and following that train of thought presumably will be released to the public once it IS finished though. That seems like a way more tolerable reason to lock it for now than "Cheating is bad"
     
  18. Marados
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    Marados Necromancer Founder

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    I fully agree with Nutter!

    That's also correct! I don't see the problem with Level8. The objective is not to clear the whole map. It is just to clear one single room. I made this map in around 10minutes.

    The Devs still put a lot of love into this map. A nicely designed mission, special and varied gameplay, many awesome textures and quite a few different themes are making this level very enjoyable.
    This was definitely work for weeks (or even months) and you can't invest 10 minutes to finish the level and have fun?

    I don't think we really need this discussion.
    I am sure the Devs know what they are doing. If these debug commands would be 100% cheats I am sure the Devs would have shared them. But they didn't! So there might be a reason behind it. We just don't know it!
     
  19. Nutter
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    Nutter Inquisitor Founder

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    Of course, and like I said. This wasn't about me pulling rank, it was just supposed to be the evidence/proof about me "knowing the dangers of the debug console being used incorrectly". I'm definitely a (mostly) human being and I don't want to pick a fight with anyone.... you're not "below my rank" at all, and I wasn't trying to suggest that (apologies if that's how it came across!).

    If the debug console worked 100% without any problems, i.e revealing fog of war didn't cause lag/crashes, I wouldn't have an issue with people using it if they wanted to. But if someone who doesn't know it can happen, uses that debug command.. and then their game crashes... and then they report that as a bug, with everything else working fine, the QA team have to spend time trying to figure out what caused that problem, rather than any focusing on other bug. Using the Debug console can have unexpected consequences, which can potentially make mine and the rest of the QA team's life harder, and I want to be fixing "real" bugs, not ones caused by debug commands that probably shouldn't be happening.

    Hope you can understand that, and see that I wasn't trying to attack you or anyone else here, I was just trying to explain why those commands were locked away and (for now atleast) need to stay locked away.
     
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  20. Randy19
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    Randy19 Bafu

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    Yes. That is a actually understandable reasoning. That is a reason i can objectively accept. Especially since the game is pretty bugged at this point the last thing you need is even more work that turns out to be false positives after working on them. I can see that a lot of the commands can cause a lot of trouble with the performance issues at hand, and i can understand locking the console away untill those things are sorted out.

    Thank you for that. And thank you for spending(or i suppose from your (rightfull) view wasting) so much time on me. You guys are really doing a incredible job with your community management!
     
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