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[CREATURE] Escavator

suitable, yay or nay?


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Ben Chandler

Impassibly Cool
WFTO Backer
Jan 23, 2013
311
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#1
[CREATURE][HERO] Escavator (sorry about rushed picture)
Health: High
Armor: Very High vs range/spells/traps, weak vs melee
Movement Speed: very slow
Attack strength: low
Attack speed: low
Intelligence: n/a
Construction: n/a
Training Rate: n/a
Training Cost: n/a
Wage: n/a
Gender: n/a

gg.jpg


Skills:
Dig: can push through dirt and walls with ease.
Javeline: the dwarf warrior nestled within the war machine will throw javelins at close-mid range.

Hard boiled (PASSIVE): (took term form Juggernaught) same affect as Juggernaught, i.e. can walk on lava etc, with negative affects.
Watch yer backs! (PASSIVE): this war machine is heavy... I mean really heavy! It’s hard to stop quickly and if you get a foot trapped under it, well lets just say you won’t be walking on that for a while. (causes large trample damage to all in its path, including allies.)
Heave’ho: the dwarves pushing the great war-machine take a wee dram o’whiskey before pushing the war machine with all their might, shooting it ahead of them. (trample damage is vastly increased) and the dwarves need a short break before pushing again (5 sec stun to movement)

BASICALLY: This unit should be built not attracted... perhaps with the requirement of having 2/3 dwarven units present (maybe even workers) - [potential for underlord variant there]
It can clear traps really well due to resistances. Any beings in front of it are in trouble >>> however very vulnerable to melee attacks from ALL other angles!
If fortified walls ARE indestructable,, then well I feel it could remain as purely a way of pushing front line forward... quickly get through doors etc.... OR like the traps and spells indicated, it could be the ONLY unit capable of breaking walls! After all, it's a hero unit, and therefore could be implemented in campaigns. If heroes are playable, it should be FRIGGING expensive!
However it should have a purpose either way... less expensive if walls cant break though, making it a good counter tank unit!

Weaknesses/Resistances:
Resistant to just about everything except melee attacks. Not that melee attackers will want to get too close... unless they want to see if there’s anything MORE painful than stubbing their toes.

Information: This war machine is a very clumsy piece of work. It’s forged (for a great cost) by master dwarven smithies and can plough through just about anything: dirt walls, traps, doors, lava...blood imps (if they’re too stupid to stay in the path).
Essentially its not a hero, as it doesn’t really sleep, eat or do anything put plough for that matter (when idle, the dwarves who push it may lean on its side and nap). Its a high end, purpose built siege engine that will just break when defeated, therefore cannot be converted etc.

Appearance: large wagon like vehicle pushed by 2 armoured dwarves, housing a hostile dwarf wielding javelins (could replace with throwing axes). Revolving digger thing at front (see pic)

Behavior in Dungeon:
idle until directed to attack enemy or plough through unknown terrain. (rather expensive for a mere exploration mission though)
Battle Style: slow siege tank. Will just drive forward... no fear whatsoever (these guys are lunatics)

Jobs: n/a

Loves: crashing enemy walls

Hates: hates allies in the way

Anger reaction: uses heave’ho ability against own walls/allies blocking pathway.

Lair: n/a will sleep aywhere

Obtainable By: heroes only construct/ possible rogue traitor to heroes (let the devs decide)

Attracted by: n/a its built

How Introduced: comes smashing through a great wall that was deemed a secure place.

Entrance Effect: the three dwarves down a few drinks, put on their gear and hop on over to the machine.

Torture: n/a
 
Likes: Fireeye

Ben Chandler

Impassibly Cool
WFTO Backer
Jan 23, 2013
311
87
275
#3
corridors? ha,, it laughs at corriders and creates carverns!!!

yer, no i see your point... could be a rather annoying destructive force,,, but hey it's the enemy and they dont care about the aesthetics of our dungeons?
 

Ben Chandler

Impassibly Cool
WFTO Backer
Jan 23, 2013
311
87
275
#5
well i guess, that depends on the vulnerability of fortified walls. if they are to be destructable then yes they speed up the digging... if the devs are keeping fortified walls indestructable except by spells (i also heard mention of undermine trap) then perhaps it shouldnt be able to bring down walls. unless it was very slow.

I guess this idea comes from modern military minesweeping vehicles, so it could plough the field for traps. but perhaps there could be a swamp trap, that creates tiles with thick swampy mud, that heroes struggle to pass through and the tank (lacking modern 4x4 technology) also gets stuck ...
... new suggestion - swamp enviroments,, naturally occuring, some underworld creatures that are used to dank bogs, can get through with ease, but most are hindered by the muddy mass.

BACK ON TOPIC... i wanted to suggest this idea, because it seems that most hero units are the standard - man in armour with sword etc --- whereas the underworld has huge demons and hulking beasts,,, the heroes should have something that can match the sheer size and destruction.

Just more variety for the heroes.
 

Aggelos

Disciple
WFTO Founder
Jan 6, 2013
39
20
155
36
#9
Sounds fun, particularly if it's damn slow. Would make a good campaign mechanic IMHO, with a first introduction in a mission, and then increasing difficult patterns in levels

To nerf id down a bit, I would prevent it to turn (not that it needs to) and would make it two squares large.
Additionally, to put some spice, it would be fun if not considered as a creature but some kind of created artefact.

I'll explain :

if vanquished, it's not destroyed, it stays there as wreck : can be repaired, and can be moved, provided it's moved along a 2 squares large path (has to be pulled), to aim it at another underlord's heart.

In games like Underlord vs Underlord vs Hero vs Hero (for example), that could be quite fun.
 

Azrael

Bloodling
WFTO Backer
Jan 5, 2013
66
38
75
#11
I'm pretty sure that should be Excavator. Or Escalator, but that doesn't quite fit, i think.

That aside, i think this would work best as a special, mission-only creature that isn't encountered on "normal" maps.
 
Likes: Ben Chandler

Castigator

Gargoyle
WFTO Backer
Dec 30, 2012
433
237
305
Germany
#12
I can see this as a boss for the dwarfs in campaign mode, rather than a creature. It would be like their last effort to stop you, set on its path to grind your dungeon heart. It would be critical for you to stop its advance, as this monstrosity would prevent any attempt to turtle. I think of it as a chapter 2 boss, while it's certainly powerful on the front, it can be vulnerable at its side and rear. To win that mission, you have to kill the dwarves guarding it, sabotage and/or destroy the machine and then punish the surviving lawn ornaments*. You might even turn it around and use it against the inventors. Would be quite funny to see their durngeon heart being flattened by their own weapon. All in all, I think it is more of a unique boss/object than a monster with lair or needs.
The javelineer, however can make a good creature.
*There have to be anti dwarven slurs. Even if I have to make them up.
 

Ben Chandler

Impassibly Cool
WFTO Backer
Jan 23, 2013
311
87
275
#13
I'm pretty sure that should be Excavator.

Right about the spelling there!!

Also on notes about it being a buildable artifact not a creature, i completely agree. It was my intention and maybe that's not clear enough in description. But absolutely it would be ridiculous to have any kind of lair/needs for this, as it's a vehicle. (also like the idea of being able to repair it - perhaps for a large gold and time cost, but considerable less than building a new one obv)

If it were a boss, it should be BIgger and more menacing in every respect. upgrade of quite a simple initial design.

But also if it were just a high tier unit (not creature) then it could be set on some kind of level in which a premade underworld fortress is set up and the heroes are coming to siege it from multiple directions. underlord has to defend base.


Alernatives could be that there is an Underworld version (presuming that the heroes wont be playable in multiplayer) and once a player chooses to build it, it's an all or nothing approach, using lots of resources to send a massive force to attack enemy, who will have to send out skirmishes to slow it down and deplete the offence to have a chance of survival. (MASSIVE ANTI TURTLE UNIT)
 

Robofish

Necromancer
WFTO Founder
Dec 1, 2012
507
262
415
29
Surrey, laughing at how rubbish Sussex is.
#14
I think this will just be annoying and have players swearing at the screen as their aesthetically perfect master crafted dungeons are ruined, rather than have them fearing defeat. IT wouldn't be so bad if it were killable, but this thing is so tough that even if you jump right on it, it'll probably still steam through.

On the other hand, as a one off boss I can see it would make for an interesting unique battle, where you have to stop it before it smashes its way to your heart, and perhaps at that point a bunch of heroes could jump out.
 

Ben Chandler

Impassibly Cool
WFTO Backer
Jan 23, 2013
311
87
275
#15
If it were a boss that'd be interesting...
...If not i never suggested it to be indestructable. As I mentioned originally, it's highly vulnerable to melee attacks, and only lethal damage is caused to creatures in front of it.
Also if it is just a high tier hero unit, it should be only one tile across and able to slowly turn corners slowly.. (although i mentioned it as a plough, i would expect it to follow paths and not take a direct route to your dungeon heart, unless it were some campaign mission pre-determined task)
 

Noontide

Designer / Community Manager
Brightrock Games
Dec 8, 2012
2,141
1,776
700
Brighton, UK
#16
I do like the idea of a strong digging machine that you really have to get behind to take on, I can just imagine trying to predict it's path and digging tunnels so I can ambush it as it passes different check points now. I like the idea of having it as a one off thing and in that case I'd like to see it dig 2x2 tunnels, I think it'd be a mighty imposing threat to the Underlord, though I could see it being a high tier unit as well.
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#17
Problem is - how it will act when killed?

Creatures in WFTO by idea are single solid unit, with weapons and items but not riding on siege equipment or anything. If you would suggest something like an live battle ram ( something like a giant, who carries a huge log ) it would fit the selected role more than a pack of dwarfs sitting on the chariot or whatever it is.
 

Ben Chandler

Impassibly Cool
WFTO Backer
Jan 23, 2013
311
87
275
#18
Problem is - how it will act when killed?

Creatures in WFTO by idea are single solid unit, with weapons and items but not riding on siege equipment or anything. If you would suggest something like an live battle ram ( something like a giant, who carries a huge log ) it would fit the selected role more than a pack of dwarfs sitting on the chariot or whatever it is.
That's a fair comment, and I share the same thoughts with you there. Perhaps a very minor explosion happens when the unit breaks, killing the dwarves... But then I guess the dwarves are still vulnerable. (Perhaps if critical hits are to be in this game, then if the creature hit the dwarf in 'real life' it would be a critical hit in the game)


Don't know, anyone who likes the general idea but has a suggestion,,,post away
 

Noontide

Designer / Community Manager
Brightrock Games
Dec 8, 2012
2,141
1,776
700
Brighton, UK
#19
Hmmm I'd suggest given the presence of machinery within WFTOs world so far in the form of Traps and Whack a Dwarf and stuff then you could potentially remove the need for the pushing dwarves by simply automating the war machine and introducing an extended dwarven crew. When the excavator is destroyed it explodes due to a critical rupture in the steam tank that runs it's machinery, the resulting explosion flings the dwarven crew along with the debris in a physics based manner, maybe knocking down attacking creatures that are nearby from the shockwave, the dwarves will take a random large amount of damage and may be killed though some may survive. So the reaction will be different in closed spaces from open spaces.

Alternatively you could take inspiriation from Da vinci's "Tank"



The Da vinci tank was powered by man power from the inside, the entire thing could be operated from inside and was meant to be protected from the weapons of Da vinci's time. It's a concept that does work and has been built in modern times and with some tweaks I reckon you could make it into a convincing self contained excavator.

As it takes damage you could have either it simply collapse upon death leaving the crew vulnerable, or you could make it so that as it takes damage parts of the armour are removed revealing the soft squishy and tasty dwarven operators, you could then target individual dwarves to disrupt the "Tank". That's more in line with a boss idea though.
 

Ben Chandler

Impassibly Cool
WFTO Backer
Jan 23, 2013
311
87
275
#20
I think if ever this were to be a boss, that idea would be really interesting.

Further thoughts if it weren't... if this were to be a built sort of unit, it could *require* 2/3 dwarven units to operate, who after it's destroyed, function as their normal units... could even be workers who are Given armour when the driver enlists them to push the machine. OK that sounds complicated, but i guess what i mean, is that when built, 2 workers/other units are out of function, when destroyed, those 2 come back! -
>>>
or more complex but more realistic version, is that those 2 dwarves still have independent HP,, and when die need to be replaced before the machine can be pushed further.

The third dwarf could be a specific hero tied completely in with the machine (i.e. not independent in any way and other than maybe some small cutscene, would never be seen not in his place.) - [again, if that doesn't work, he could be a third dwarven unit]
 
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