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[Creatures] More Female Units

Discussion in 'Suggestion Archive' started by Dardamavet, May 31, 2013.

  1. Dardamavet
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    Dardamavet Disciple

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    As much as I'm excited, one thing I thought DK was lacking is female units.
    Wouldn't it be fun to play as strong scary female monster and terrorise the heroes? Or run in fear when the Giant goodly girl comes to play?

    The problems:
    • Most units are males.
    • The few Empire female units we do have are "fairly weak in combat".
    • Female units tend to look alike with just different clothing.

    Suggested Solutions:
    • Add physically strong Empire females
      • Giant
      • Warrior Princess
      • Slayer
      • Hunter
      • Ninja
      • And so on...
    • Decide that more monsters are female
      • I would love it if the Augre will be a girl!
      • The Chunder could be a girl.
      • Maybe some king of demonic little girl?
      • Actually most monsters don't look human anyway, all that matter is text and narrating.
    • Avoid choosing gender for units when possible
      • For example - no one knows what the Juggernaut looks like.
      • Non-human monsters apply here as well.

    Keep up the good work!

    Some awesome girls as inspiration:
    Cloi-medusa.jpg

    annie.jpg

    elven_warrior_princess.jpg
     
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  2. theMarg0r
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    theMarg0r Dryad Backer

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    In any case, I wouldn't worry about it. We by no means have a comprehensive list of all the units.

    Some sort of Sister of Sigmar, huge-hammer female Juggernaut counterpart would be nice, though, at least as a unique lord of the land. :p

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Peetfighter
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    Peetfighter Augre Founder

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    Female Augre? Female Chunder? o_O
     
  4. theMarg0r
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    theMarg0r Dryad Backer

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    Female Augre, meh. Female Chunder? Hell yeah, why not. :D
     
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  5. Dardamavet
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    Dardamavet Disciple

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    It doesn't have to be "recognisably female". We have units which are not "recognisably male" yet we are told that they are male, so why not have the other way around?
    And Medusa specifically is a famous female monster, even if she dosen't look the part ;)
     
  6. theMarg0r
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    theMarg0r Dryad Backer

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    Oh that's a MEDUSA HEAD. :p I thought it was some sort of weird big floating brain face

    And yes it matters. You should be able to tell something is female by looking at it, otherwise, it doesn't really solve the problem of female creatures being underrepresented. Actually, what if there are male and female Chunders, Bafus, Oculus, etc., you just can't tell them apart? Problem solved? :p
     
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  7. Lord of Riva
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    Lord of Riva The Lord Founder

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    im all in for that already suggested gender variations for ALL (or mostly all) units.

    the devs stated that they want the units to be designed having a specific character that may not work with both genders though (im not sure if i like these gender roles that much though :p my opinion ) on the other hand this would mean A LOT more work with animations, text, narrating etc.

    let them work on the base game first , we may be able to ask for DLCs etc. or we have to go with modding ;)

    we'll see, just know you are not alone :p
     
  8. theMarg0r
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    theMarg0r Dryad Backer

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    This is honestly a stupid idea for a DLC. Not everything is a good idea for a DLC. If this isn't in the base game, let the modders handle it. :p
     
  9. Amon
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    Amon Ember Demon

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    Now isn't that a horrid thought. The female Chunder: stick a male chunder in pink high-heels, with long fake eyelashes and blue eye-shadow. Maybe give it a purse or something.

    *shudder*
     
  10. Lord of Riva
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    Lord of Riva The Lord Founder

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    beasts or not that human looking units could work with subtle ways to be female, a BAfu may have another color and less spikes or something, a chunder may be smaller (or bigger why not) etc.


    you may be right, still i would pay for that :D
     
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  11. theMarg0r
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    theMarg0r Dryad Backer

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    I believe the devs aren't nearly EA enough to charge for something like that, especially with such huge modding support planned. :p
     
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  12. Slichizard
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    Slichizard Bard

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    Right now, most Female creatures in WFTO are casters. There's some spot for Female Knights, Female Rogues and Female Archers, mostly for Empire race. Underlord army can have a Female Archer/Rogue though.
     
  13. Enjou
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    Enjou Ember Demon Backer

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    DK only had the Dark Mistress on the Underlord side, and DK2 had the Dark Mistress, the Maiden (which was added post release), and possibly the Dark Elf though I'm not entirely certain about that one. For the hero side DK had the Fairy and the Priestess, but DK2 only had the Fairy.

    For WFTO currently only two female units are known - the Priestess and the Succubus. There will likely be some female Empire leaders who are unique units, but those don't really count towards the general unit count since they are unique. I agree with the notion that we could use some more obviously female units on both sides of the fence. At the very least the Underlord side should have three female units and the Empire should at least have two (since they have less unit types than the Underlord side), but a few more than that would be nice. I suggested the Dryad a while ago as an Empire unit, which I think would throw in some variation for the Empire.

    In regards to female variants of every unit, I understand why the devs wouldn't want to do this for all units - it's a lot of work, and they don't have the time to do it. However, there's one unit on the Underlord side I think they should do this for. The Cultist. There's no reason women shouldn't be able to participate in the worship of the Nameless One, and given that Cultists have a standard uniform with their robes it wouldn't be difficult to design the variant.
     
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  14. CastleIllusion
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    CastleIllusion Ghoul

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    Pre-emptively diving into heavily armoured bunker... (there's someone here that scares me!)

    The question is would the inclusion of more female characters do anything to improve the game?

    I could go into an argument I've heard before but that's what links are for:

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/true-female-characters

    To summarise: If there would be more female characters in WotO they would either need to be different genetically (using the stats differently to create two styles for the same class) or the society of the Overworld would need to be looked at and the society rules would need to be declared so that female characters can either follow society rules or create characters that choose to break them and fight to prove they can match their male counterparts.

    It also works both ways, which roles have been assigned to men in the Overworld, how does it affect their stats and what happens when one chooses to break the norm.

    To be honest, the original DK series was about Irony and Humour. If they are continuing in the humourous form gender can be brilliant for humour and irony (see Twelfth Night) either because the "Wrong" gender turns out to be better at the role than the supposed "Right" gender (either through the Skill of the "Wrong" or the Stupidity of the "Right") OR the attempt to break the norm ends in disaster.

    Its got to be handled right though. If its handled wrongly it will be accused of sexism... no pressure developers.
     
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  15. Lord of Riva
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    Lord of Riva The Lord Founder

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    well im not sure of the WFTO world but our world has some issues with sexsism. i dont think different stats would be necessary , in D&D female and male heroes have the same stats... and that didnt break the immersion.
    the sexism debate doesnt have a place here i think, it may just be normal that females and males are able to chose their profession in the WFTO world, even without chainmail bikinis ;)
     
  16. Enjou
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    Enjou Ember Demon Backer

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    There's actually two questions here, one regards characters and the other regards units. The difference is that characters have a role in the story, while units are a thing that you or the AI command while playing the game. Sometimes the two mix, but not always.

    Female characters might include Underlords, for instance. They wouldn't necessarily have an avatar other than their Dungeon Core. Others might include female characters like a female Lord of the Land type that actually does have a unit. Some others may never appear in combat, but might have avatars in cutscenes. Characters need to be fleshed out to make the story believable, and this can be rather difficult, but properly implemented female characters can improve the story. Given that most of the WFTO story will be around battle and conflict, most of the female characters should be strong willed ones IMO.

    Female units would include the Succubus and the Priestess. While these units have personalities assigned to them, they don't really take an active role in how the story unfolds aside from maybe getting bit parts since they are not individuals but rather a unit class. Each one is essentially the same as any other. The inclusion of female units can improve immersion into the game world, IMO. It's the same thing with children in the Elder Scrolls series - their absence was rather noticeable in Morrowind an Oblivion, and they eventually added them in Skyrim. The world itself was more fleshed out because of it. It would be strange to me that in an epic battle of good vs evil where the world is at stake that only males would be involved on either side - women would have at least as much stake in which side won as the men would.
     
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  17. D@nzingtree
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    [email protected] Crackpot

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    The Empire should be a place of harmony, were womans can take on the professions they like to do. Amazons, female assasins and thiefes and the known female elven archer are classic fantasy archetypes which could be used in the game.

    The underworld however is a harsh place.
    Gnarlings and augres for example seem to be very tribal creatures, I dont want to be sexist, but female goblins and ogres seem to be unfitting. In rough societys the ones with the biggest muscles or the best magic, demagocic skills are present in the leading jobs.

    Females, like males should fit the setting.
    Cultists may have females in their ranks because they are religius magic users who dont need to sort out certain genders, the same goes for magicans and sneaky units in general.
    Unciviliced brawlers like augres would have a man ruled hyrachies when it comes to war. (exeptions, may be shamans)
    Sorry, but gnarling females should stay in the cave kitchen, making sandwiches-harsh but its an evil goblinoid race with melee centered professions.
    Chunders seem to produce asexually through mouth breeding and beasts dont have to look very different. We dont know if one this bafus in our dungeon is female or not, small model changes would be cool but not nessecary.

    Besides that I would really like to see some cool female heros, who aren´t clad in ridiculous chainmail bicinis or other types of "armors" which look like the evening dress of a medieval prostitute. (exception are sucubi, some well explained nudeness for us male players : ) )
    Some games just go too far, I stopped playing two worlds 2 for example, because the game didn`t stop to throw oversized boobs at me, on the other hand it was weird to see a female skyrim blacksmith-you never see many female builders as well.
     
  18. Rhalius
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    Rhalius Templar

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    I'd say add a female variation to some creatures and heroes, not all. Just where it makes sense.

    Not the stalwart soldiers of the empire for example, but thieves, mages, adventurers and such since women wouldnt be in the official millitairy. well in many fantasy settings they are but thats just too much emancipation for such a setting.
     
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  19. Underlord Vulukai
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    Underlord Vulukai Matriarch Backer

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    I believe ive seen a Chunder or two walking around the local mall then.

    On an on topic note, the whole reason females as a combat oriented character design are 'misrepresented or under presented' is that history simply supports male centric combative figures. Exceptions such as the Amazon warriors in real life history only prove the rule, and this has become a deep rooted psychological stigma because of history, not just a general chauvinism. In a kind of fantasy setting such as this, establishment of female warrior archetypes would need to be put into the lore, and would not necessarily constitute making everything 'gender equal'

    Feudal societies don't tend to take such modern views on these kinds of issues, its why alot of these fantasy settings end up more in the normal range of a kind of historical representation. Im all for adding in some female specific classes, or, as theMarg0r stated, a kind of Sisters of Sigmar class (holy female ass-kick paladin class, dressed in a kind of Erza from fairytale practical style)

    On other units, it would fall down to whether or not this form of design decision falls into the over all lore of the world, or is practical from a design/time standpoint, as quite a few other people here have already stated.
    Morrowind and Oblivion both had female characters o_O

    Umbra in Oblivion was a wandering female Orc Warrior, and there were plenty of other shopkeeps, mercenaries, bandits, etc. throughout oblivion and morrowind..... man i want to play Morrowind now.
     
  20. Enjou
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    Enjou Ember Demon Backer

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    Well, we know that not everything is harmonious in the Empire - there's some degree of corruption, and the Church is extremely zealous about enforcing morality and order. (see the Inquisitor) The question is really what the Church's religion says on the matter. Honestly I do hope that they don't have a misogynistic religion.

    In regards to Gnarlings and Augers, it's not too uncommon in fantasy genre to have goblin and ogre females be indistinguishable from males to most other races. Sexual dimorphism isn't a necessity for every species, and quite often females are just as big and strong as males or more so in many real world species.
     

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