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DUNGEONS II

Lord of Riva

The Lord
Founder
Dec 29, 2012
2,786
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#3
looks like impire.
Its seems like its more RTS than DMG.
They Still have this bad Avatar System.
Room size seems to be fixed.

honest opinion:
Avoid at all costs.

also this gets Advertised as a Dungeon keeper successor like the first one but now i see what they said last time as well:

"THEY didnt/dont say that it is a DK sucessor" the others will do that for them and im sure IGN & CO will happily jump on that band wagon for the right amount.

I know i may be biased :)P) but please for the love of god dont Hype it, take not a grain but a kilo of salt with that game trust me. I wish for all of us DMG Lovers that im wrong since diversity is good... but i dont believe i am.
 

Badwolf699

Juggernaut
Founder
Dec 18, 2011
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#4
We all know how Biased is IGN is CoD gets a score of 10 while somthing like ArmA Only gets a score of 6.5 with the phrase "It's OK"
 

Mozared

Juggernaut
Founder
Feb 17, 2013
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#5
I've played it at Gamescom. My initial thought was "It's more like Dungeon Keeper, so it's better".

I'll be more in-depth for those interested.

Dungeons 1 had a system where your main goal was to lure heroes into your dungeon, satisfy their needs ('the Sims' style) by allowing them to pick up gold from gold piles and fight weak monsters, and then knocking them out with your 'Avatar' unit before they were able to leave again - afterwards you would imprison them to slowly collect their 'soul essence' until they died. Soul energy in turn was used to build 'aesthetic' objects that each increased the players' 'prestige', which effectively made his avatar more powerful and allowed him to build better gold piles to more quickly fill new heroes' needs, as well as construct larger prisons. At its core, the gameplay was actually quite fun. While anybody looking for a sequel to Dungeon Keeper would be disappointed with the game, the idea of having an evil 'theme park' style gameplay where you literally play 'inverse Diablo' had some promise. Where it went wrong was in the design behind its basic mechanics. The issue is that everything is connected, and the values are off.

It's fun that aesthetic objects are used to increase your 'prestige' because this automatically means you become stronger as your dungeon starts looking more awesome. However, because you need roughly 500 wall candles for 200 prestige (at which point you unlock the second prison) your dungeon ends up looking completely cluttered with random shit. At the same time, aesthetic objects also dictate the heroes' path, as heroes venture to the nearest object they can see. The result of this is that you can't place anything near your Dungeon Heart, lest you lure the heroes there - forcing you to kill them without any of their needs satisfied, meaning you get next to no soul essence. This in turn means some areas of your dungeon will end up convoluted as hell while others have to remain virtually empty.

You can also only build things within your area of influence, which is increased by placing creature spawn points. As such, you need to place spawn points are the edge of your area of influence to properly expand it. The issue is that for a perfect dungeon, you want to put unit spawners along a specific path for heroes to fight so they fulfill their 'take damage' need. These objectives conflict completely and in the end you'll end up placing very weak monsters at the edge just to expand your area while throwing heaps of stronger monsters together close to your dungeon heart. And let's not forget about the fact that heroes chase down your Avatar for quite a distance if they see them, and that as such it becomes impossible to pick off completely satisfied leaving heroes without bumping into (and thus having to kill) a few non-satisfied adventurers who just stumbled into your dungeon.

Dungeons 2 seems to have dropped a lot of that. Heroes no longer need to be 'satisfied' in any way. You build rooms 'normally' again, like you would in Dungeon Keeper. You don't directly attract monsters, but buy them manually as soon as you fulfill their requirements. They will however go about their own merry way again while not fighting. At the same time, prestige is gone (at least in its old rendition), as is area of influence. All in all, you're again commanding an army while excavating a dungeon, rather than failing at managing a diabolical theme park because the basic systems are inherently flawed. There are also some 'neutral' objectives, like 'mana crystals' around which 'mana temples' can be build (that in turn allow you to get new monsters).

All in all, in an effort to sum it all up, I would say that Dungeons tried to be a less expansive and more evil version of Theme Park or Rollercoaster Tycoon. Dungeons 2 seems more like a mix of Dungeon Keeper and objective-based strategy games, like Civilization or Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War, making its playstyle a bit closer to something like Dwelvers. It is however, again, not a 'sequel' to Dungeon Keeper. You'll want the earlier mentioned Dwelvers of WFTO for that. Nevertheless, I'll probably be getting Dungeons 2 anyway; if they can actually execute what they're trying to do in a proper fashion this time around, the game could be a worthwhile 20-30 hours single player experience.
 

Badwolf699

Juggernaut
Founder
Dec 18, 2011
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#6
Thanks for being our inside man Mozared!
Number 2 does sound alot more fun.
Was it still in its Beta stage?
 

Mozared

Juggernaut
Founder
Feb 17, 2013
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#7
I can't recall any specific mentions of this, but I would very much assume so, as it was a showcase moment and the game's release date isn't even set yet. I should probably note that I may have missed some of the finer points, though, as the entire thing was in German. I'd like to think I know enough German and have enough game experience to have gotten the gist of it, though.

All the people around when I visited were interns from a nearby games academy, shamefully - I would've loved a chat with the designer.

Edit: to follow it up with - from the site it appears players will be able to visit the overworld with raiding parties in RTS mode. I'm pretty sure this wasn't in the demo I played and witnessed. While it looks quite fun, my fear is that the game might fall flat because it tries to be multiple games at once, like Spore did. We'll have to wait and see what Kalypso does in the end, but I've got high hopes.
 
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Jan 3, 2013
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#8
I'm concerned about Skirmish Mode. Campaign is surely fun but once you have it done, it's Skirmish Mode that comes in mind. It's still little said about game modes, however looking at Dungeons 1 and it's dull Sandbox I don't have my hopes high about this one.
 

Mozared

Juggernaut
Founder
Feb 17, 2013
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#9
I'm concerned about Skirmish Mode. Campaign is surely fun but once you have it done, it's Skirmish Mode that comes in mind. It's still little said about game modes, however looking at Dungeons 1 and it's dull Sandbox I don't have my hopes high about this one.
So you're concerned about 'replayability', not as much skirmish mode in particular?

We'll have to see to what extent Dungeons 2 can deliver. From what I can tell, the humorous and light setting of the game makes it a bit of a 'family game' which definitely won't have much of an interesting focus on multiplayer. This means we can expect a primarily single-player experience to begin with. Keeping that in mind, I'm not worried about replayability as much as I'm worried about whether the game is good in general. Dungeons had a 'dull sandbox' primarily because the entire game was dull - it was no different from the campaign. The actual support for single player replayability was tremendous, though, with the expansion, a huge amount of maps and all sorts of different modes to play in.
 
Likes: Amon

Enjou

Ember Demon
Backer
Jan 10, 2012
1,315
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#10
Good to hear someone who actually played it give an opinion. Still, I find it telling that they haven't released any gameplay videos in spite of having something playable and that once again they've got media people touting it as a spiritual successor to DK.
 

Mozared

Juggernaut
Founder
Feb 17, 2013
1,132
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#11
Good to hear someone who actually played it give an opinion. Still, I find it telling that they haven't released any gameplay videos in spite of having something playable and that once again they've got media people touting it as a spiritual successor to DK.
Isn't this what any game with similar gameplay wants, though? It's quite understandable, and if people haven't learned from Dungeons 1, Impire or DK Mobile then I fear they'll never learn. Ironically enough, it's the same case with WFTO - we all like to think it's different from the other modern DMG's, and we all think it is going to be a proper successor to Dungeon Keeper.
 
Likes: Amon
Aug 29, 2014
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#12
Hi guys,

I'm Dennis from Kalypso Media, the publisher of Dungeons 2 and I'm happy to see you noticed our announcement. :)

Dungeons 2 is currently in (early) alpha stage, that's why we didn't want to release gameplay footage in this eary phase, but we surely will release gameplay footage as soon as the development has progressed to a point where content and quality are sufficient.
If you have any further questions I'll do my best to help you.

Cheers,
Dennis

PS: Just to be sure, there will be NO micro-transactions or p2w-stuff or things like that in Dungeons 2, it's a 100% classic pc game.
 

Lord of Riva

The Lord
Founder
Dec 29, 2012
2,786
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#13
PS: Just to be sure, there will be NO micro-transactions or p2w-stuff or things like that in Dungeons 2, it's a 100% classic pc game.
why are you mentioning that all the time o_O thats irritating nobody think it would :D
well what we all want to know is if you think Dungeons 2 is a Spiritual Successor to the old DMG or if it tries to do more of its own thing like Dungeons 1 :)

Important for me is how you see it. So an answer would be appreciated
 
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Dec 14, 2012
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#15
Looks like the game mechanics of Dungeon Keeper crossed with World of Warcraft.

So it'd essentially feel more like I'm creating a 'Dungeon' under the World of Warcraft pretense.

That looks pretty cool and will be fun to play when playing long hours on War for the Overworld first.

Its a game with a World of Warcraft audience in mind, this is actually pretty good because when someone wants a darker environment they'll discover War for the Overworld.

Now, WFTO must go darker and and more sinister and bring out a dungeons grungy side putting 'Dungeons II's' extremes to shame.
 

Mozared

Juggernaut
Founder
Feb 17, 2013
1,132
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#16
Hi guys,

I'm Dennis from Kalypso Media, the publisher of Dungeons 2 and I'm happy to see you noticed our announcement. :)

Dungeons 2 is currently in (early) alpha stage, that's why we didn't want to release gameplay footage in this eary phase, but we surely will release gameplay footage as soon as the development has progressed to a point where content and quality are sufficient.
If you have any further questions I'll do my best to help you.
That's amazing to hear! I've always sort of liked Kalypso as you guys seem very self-made and most of your games feel like they have a lot of potential. Let's see if you stick around long enough to confirm my positive suspicions.

I do actually have some questions for you: what made you guys design Dungeons (1) the way it ended up? Why go the theme park route? And do you think you've learned from the issues that plagued that game (I went over some earlier at length) and is your response to that the reason Dungeons 2 seems so much less convoluted?

Also, are you guys keeping track of WFTO and what do you think of it? What are the major differences between the two games?

I realize these questions are fairly large and expansive, but I feel like an answer to any of them would be interesting - whether it'd be one word long or two pages.
 

Badwolf699

Juggernaut
Founder
Dec 18, 2011
2,370
633
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#17
Hi Dennis nice of you to join the WTFO Forum :)

I'm wondering it mentions on many websites that their are 2 factions, doe sthat mean their are 2 types of DungeonLord or 2 Factions as in The DungeonLord and the Heroes

Also will heroes actually die this time :p I just found no satisfaction in knocking them out for soul energy.
 
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