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[Empire Creature] Valkyrie --- or less Norse Myth based name.

Question on Ability 3: Choice of the Slain...

  • iii Ally normally, Enemy dies

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • iv option iii separates into 2 abilities

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • REALLY DON'T CARE, DON'T TO SEE THIS HERO ANYWAY!

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    9
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Ben Chandler

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Jan 23, 2013
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#1
[EMPIRE CREATURE] Valkyrie IGNORE VOTING ABOVE^^^^^^^^^^

OK, Valkyries have been mentioned a few times in various posts, but as far as I could tell, no one actually put up a suggestion for how they'd work.

So here's my stab at it:
valk.jpg

Overview
Highlight – Light support unit with the ability to resurrect allied units
Type– Intelligent
Role – Support attacker
Acquired by– (Hero) Temple & Barracks/Arena
Basic attack– Magic Dart (ranged) [EDIT] or spear melee
Offensive power– Low-med
Defensive power – Low-med
Health points – Low-med
Resistances – Some resistance to physical attacks
Movement – Fast
Work – Prayer Research
Entertainment– Prayer, Combat
Special Needs[EDIT] None, but requires strong warriors in army to be attracted.
Upgrades – None

Abilities
(T1) Bringer of Omens: The Valkyrie have the power to choose which soldiers will die in battle and which will survive. This brings hope to those who fight alongside them and dread to their enemies. (Minor to combat abilities to local allies and minor loss to local enemys’) {replace combat abilities with morale, if morale exists in game} [EDIT] DOES NOT STACK
(T2) Eyes of Justice: [EDIT] Nothing can hide from the Valkyrie, they see all souls in their path. (all hidden creatures are exposed)


(A1) Call of Valour: [EDIT]The great war cry of the Valkyrie rallies the hearts of all brave soldiers, forcing all fears out of their minds and causing them to fight for a chance to enter Valhalla with smiles on their faces. [Negates any loss of control over creatures including fear]
(A2) Blessings of Hildr: The ethereal maidens return briefly to their spiritual form, reducing all damage taken by 75% and increasing movement speed by 25%. While under this spell, they are unable to attack.
(A3) Choice of the Slain: /////// complicated here \\\\\\\\ [EDIT] The Valkyrie if seeing a worthy warrior fall in battle may choose to save him from death so he can fight another day.
- COULD be>> Allied fallen creatures of equal or lower health can be returned to battle by Valkyrie with whatever % of health the Valkyrie had...at some cost... (level of valkyrie reduced or even reduced right back to 1???) - this was original suggestion, but arrose many complications,,,, i'm now leaning more towards below.
-OR COULD BE>>>> (Lordofriva's suggestion) the warrior returns for a SHORT period of time and during this time, the Valkyrie could disappear?
-OR ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS PEOPLE HAVE

Background

The Valkyrie are spirits of vengeance and valour; they serve those who fight strongly in battle and will bless them with everlasting life and riches beyond their mortal imaginations if they can prove themselves.
Despite their frail and beautiful appearances they fight with a ferocity that goes beyond the living which can only be tamed by those who wield the powers of magic.

Appearance: Ghostly warrior princesses wearing gleaming chainmail and high winged helms. Great wings seem to protrude from their backs. They either wield slender javelins or a long bow with magical arrows.

Loves: Watching battles and fighting alongside great warriors.

Hates: Creatures associated with stealth and subterfuge.

Anger reaction:Will kill all prisoners of war. Extreme version could be take the life of both herself and that of your most powerful warrior.

Lair: Great Drinking Horn.

Obtainable By: Hero... conversion perhaps or perhaps not,,, keep it exclusive.

How Introduced: You try and kill a brave knight who has survived your onslaught, but before finally killing him, you see a blur of white and the shape of an angelic woman flash in front of him: he disappears along with the spirit. Later he returns with a greater force and several Valkyrie fighting by his side.

Entrance Effect: Great blow of horns and cries of heroes.

ADVISOR QUOTE: Hahaha,, I see the Empire has come under the favour of the Valkyrie. You may finally get the chance to realise your dream Underlord... watching your enemies die by the foul hands of your minions over and over and over again!

Torture: Pecked alive by Ravens. (apparently they are associated with each other)
 

Ben Chandler

Impassibly Cool
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Jan 23, 2013
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#2
I understand that AI could be complicated here, so the Valkyrie doesn't sacrifice herself on useless creatures, but perhaps to negate the annoyance of that, she maybe wouldn't have to 'die', but always return at a lower level????

Any thoughts?
 

Lord of Riva

The Lord
WFTO Founder
Dec 29, 2012
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#3
hmm Valkyries...

anyone played Valkyrie Profile (lenneth) ?
If i think about Valkyries i think about armored women with sword or spears your design with a bow is fine but feels not right for me ^^ (even if in said game lenneth could equip bows, just me being subjective again XD)

otherwise they are the recruiters of the Einherjar and fighters in the last battle of the world, ragnarok.
with this in mind it feels strange for me to see them as healer units though.

really i love the concept because i like the lore.

the T1 is strange, could work though IF it is not comulative if you have more then one Valkyrie

T2 is Hard against a sloth player , traps are supposed to be invisible to be effective and this would make them weaker, a lot

A1. Problematic since Active abilitys will be executed automatically, and i do not want to have a call to arms on random locations because she sees an imp. And heroes wont really profit from it since if they attack they will probably attack in waves where a call to arms is nearly useless. Anti Fear or moral boost (if there is moral) sounds fine to me though

A2. this skill makes her hard to kill which is good (since she doesnt profit in any other way from it) but it could be abused in Multiplayer ... making her unbeatable and rushing with her to the heart in symbiosis or to the Imps

A3. i do not like this because: i dont want Insta kills neither my creatures to save something else nor for the enemy since its to strong in my opinion

what could work is a prolonged life skill: the Valkyrie makes target knocked out / Dead to her Einherjar bringing it back to fight for a few seconds, the Valkyrie is stunned for the Duration. (just a Suggestion)

Torture: Hard to Convert. hmm in my opinion they create undeads (in the Lore) enslaving them to fight in a war of their Gods, doesnt sound nice to me ^^ . for the Time they were relevant this could work as holy but nowadays it feels kinda Ambivalent, but again just my 2 cents (i would suggest normal conversion rate not hard)

Special Needs– Worthy Heroes to follow into battle ... how is this supposed to work? and if you convert her it could be a problem ;)

it may look like im bashing it but i would love to see a Valkyrie in game ;) (and since im interested in it i get complicated thoughts XD)

Adding this ;)
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#4
I understand that AI could be complicated here, so the Valkyrie doesn't sacrifice herself on useless creatures, but perhaps to negate the annoyance of that, she maybe wouldn't have to 'die', but always return at a lower level????

Any thoughts?
Suicidal Valkyrie ain't cool, in any way.
 
Jun 27, 2012
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#5
While I'd like to see valkyries in the game as heroes since its a good idea for a female hero, I can't agree with their abilities much.

I'd say give them a round shield and spear as weapons. They seem to be most commonly depicted with this.
Resurrection powers might be better given to heroes who are less of a warrior, like priests or monks.
They could have other healing abilities though, like perhaps preventing death of an ally by making a single ally invurnerable for a short period of time, which she prefers to do when they are near death to keep them alive.

Seems like a great character to have an inspiring aura as well that only affects allied warriors. They may want to fight harder to impress the valkyrie.
 

Ben Chandler

Impassibly Cool
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Jan 23, 2013
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#6
I'll write in an edit. But to be honest on the ranged vs melee topic, they are often described in the Poetic Edda as bird like either rushing past a battle without being clearly seen or seen (represented as a raven or swan) circling high above the battle. Also it is described that being hit by one of the Valkyrie is like being hit by a tiny icy cold spear thrown with unnatural force. So to me it just fit the idea of having them as quite vulnerable ranged attackers whose image depicts that of the great Norse warriors.

Also there shouldn't be any instakill, I meant that this ability would ONLY ever work on fallen creatures, i.e. knocked out/bleeding out.

I'll clean it up a bit. Make them less suicidal etc ;)
 

Robofish

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Dec 1, 2012
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#7
I pretty much echo Lordofriva on this one. The idea of including a Valkyrie hero sits well with me, but the abilities listed pose numerous concerns:
Insta kill is too powerful
Resurrection is too powerful
Random call to arms springing up against my will could cause me to tear my hair out.

With T1 I again would say that's fine so long as it does not stack. With T2 I would say that could work so long as it is literally only the Valkyrie who can see such things, e.g. she can attack or avoid such things, but neither the keeper nor other creatures will have these things revealed until they act. I don't however have a problem with A2 as I don't particularly fear a lone possessed Valkyrie sneaking through to my heart. The moment this ability wears off and she can attack, she will be smited, and smited good. Besides, since she can't attack a single wooden door will stop her in her tracks ;)
 

Cultist Joris

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Dec 30, 2012
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#9
Besides, since she can't attack a single wooden door will stop her in her tracks ;)
Actually I wonder...my low level dragons weren't able to break a regular door because firebreath seemed ineffective...or was it just me? o_O
Back on topic: Instakill is indeed way too powerfull! Think: "My hard to obtain and expensive to train level 10 Horned Reaper (tm) just got killed...at once..." :(
 

Lord of Riva

The Lord
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Dec 29, 2012
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#10
Also there shouldn't be any instakill, I meant that this ability would ONLY ever work on fallen creatures, i.e. knocked out/bleeding out.
could be game breaking nonetheless if i win the battle i want to be able to rescue fallen creatures otherwise the whole KO´ed mechanics will break.

problematic is the "works on enemy creature" part... if you can influence knocked out creatures on the same side on the Valkyrie this could work (even if then this skill becomes useless)
 

Ben Chandler

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Jan 23, 2013
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#11
Just to clarify... There never was any mention of instakill.

Lordofriva I do understand your point of not wanting to lose KO'd creatures, but it is a battle. And having a minion virtually sleeping on the floor I always found odd. ALSO it's not like you're gonna have an army of Valkyries because on their own they are useless. There would only ever be a couple, whose main purpose is to sacrifice themselves to bring the greatest warriors back into battle. I personally think it should only be about reviving allies. I added the other options for democracy... Hence the vote.

Due to the specific lore of a Valkyrie I really wouldn't want to see them in the game unless their major purpose was to do with honouring warriors with some afterlife prize. Otherwise it's just shoving in a female Norse fighter... Might as well be a shield maiden.
 

Lord of Riva

The Lord
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#12
And having a minion virtually sleeping on the floor I always found odd.
the problem are the game mechanics, if you lose too many of your creature because they die either randomly by chance or with such a skill. since you cannot "produce" units in a game like this it would have a big impact losing a level 10 creatures through pure luck.
i know that death is a factor but ko´d creatures are also imprortan, how can you find creatures/heroes for your torture chamber/Jail equivalent ?.

on a side not about being suicidal creatures, this is something i do not like, why should i level a creature with the only purpose to sacrifice it? meh i dont know doesnt sound right to me ...

honouring warriors with some afterlife prize.

hence the suggestion with the "prolonged live"
 

Ben Chandler

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Jan 23, 2013
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#13
Done an edit, taken things into account.... I quite like the prolonged idea,,, but doesn't have the same 'chosen warrior' feel,,, you know what I mean?
 
Likes: Lord of Riva
Jan 3, 2013
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#15
It seems resurrection is the problem here.

The fair way would be the temporary resurrection of the unit, also known as ''timed life'' or ''borrowed time'' buff in many games.

Brings a fallen unit back so it can fight and try to avenge it's death. Resurrected unit cannot be healed/picked up or deceived. It will receive reduced damage from attacks, however it will lose % of it's health per second. Once it's life time ends or it is killed - it's simply dead ( it won't be resurrected again by another Valkyrie ). Valkyrie could pay certain % of her max life as price, skill would also have some decent cooldown.
 
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Robofish

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#16
It seems resurrection is the problem here.

The fair way would be the temporary resurrection of the unit, also known as ''timed life'' or ''borrowed time'' buff in many games.

Brings a fallen unit back so it can fight and try to avenge it's death. Resurrected unit cannot be healed/picked up or deceived. It will receive reduced damage from attacks, however it will lose % of it's health per second. Once it's life time ends or it is killed - it's simply dead ( it won't be resurrected again by another Valkyrie ). Valkyrie could pay certain % of her max life as price, skill would also have some decent cooldown.
This ^
 

Lord of Riva

The Lord
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#17
The fair way would be the temporary resurrection of the unit, also known as ''timed life'' or ''borrowed time'' buff in many games.

Once it's life time ends or it is killed - it's simply dead
then we have the same problem of creatures simply dying and we are back to the start of the discussion XD
(everything else makes sense and is a good idea regarding this
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#18
then we have the same problem of creatures simply dying and we are back to the start of the discussion XD
(everything else makes sense and is a good idea regarding this
Skill could work on dead creature, not on fallen one. I'm sure there will be other creatures who will have ability to bring fallen creature back to combat, but that will be absolutely different thing.

Or we can reverse it and grant Valkyrie ability to revive fallen creature ( resurrection would be given to other unit instead ). In this case it will work as soul stone, only once. Decent cooldown limit would still apply aswell as % HP cost. Fallen creature would come back with 50% hp and have invincibility for 2 or 3 seconds ( depends on revival animation, plus 1 free second for player to either heal it or pull it out of combat ).
 

Ben Chandler

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Jan 23, 2013
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#19
Brings a fallen unit back so it can fight and try to avenge it's death.
A thought after reading this:,, if the devs aren't keen using a creature so heavily based on Norse mythology particularly with any reference to Valhalla, Odin, Freyja etc... This idea could be changed into a character which could be either good, neutral or evil as the Fury from Greek Mythology,,, very similar lore to Valkyrie, but more based on vengeance than salvation.
>>I personally prefer the Valkyrie, but this just came to my head in case it's too Norse!

If upon conversion minions are going to revert to an evil form, the Fury could even just be the counter part...
Am I getting too carried away?
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#20
A thought after reading this:,, if the devs aren't keen using a creature so heavily based on Norse mythology particularly with any reference to Valhalla, Odin, Freyja etc... This idea could be changed into a character which could be either good, neutral or evil as the Fury from Greek Mythology,,, very similar lore to Valkyrie, but more based on vengeance than salvation.
>>I personally prefer the Valkyrie, but this just came to my head in case it's too Norse!

If upon conversion minions are going to revert to an evil form, the Fury could even just be the counter part...
Am I getting too carried away?
It's concept of creature that matters. If it is fine, creature can be altered later so there will be little to no reference to any other mythical beast or character from any story/myth.
 
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