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Environmental Factors

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Karsten Winkelmann

Blood Imp
WFTO Backer
Jan 4, 2013
3
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#1
Is there a way to develop the effects of the land tiles in the game in more ways than the ownership? I believe it would add a great way for modders to add a lot of strategy to the game, such as fixing a long time issue of DK2, the plop factor, where all your creatures are piled in a heap near the enemy and get up and fight. Plopping may not be an effective tactic on a tile that has 50% health reduction when dropping on tiles (rocky, or spike filled tiles if given graphics). You could have tiles slowing, speeding up, increasing or decreasing really any value. Adding harder or easier rock walls to tunnel through, more or less value gold seams, the possibilities are endless.

You don't need to have every specific feature, but having the land tile as a effecting entity to the units, or other entities within the game could vastly expand the fun the mod community could have.

Like a slapping tile *diabolical hand-rubbing*...
 

Nepene

Blood Imp
WFTO Backer
Jan 7, 2013
74
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#2
I'd support tiles having varied dig times. It would allow a lot more differentiation of different routes with more dangerous/rewarding routes requiring more digging.
 

Adubuu

Blood Imp
WFTO Backer
Jan 6, 2013
6
3
5
#3
I'm not 100% certain, but I have this vague, fever-dream like memory of reading somewhere that the "mana" system in WFTO will be like a rogue's energy in WoW, or Lee Sin/Shen/Akali/Kennen from League of Legends i.e a quickly recharging bar that still requires some management to use without tapping yourself dry.

I mention this because I also (somehow vaguely, I'm now going to go and hunt for exact posts) remember it being mentioned that this bar would be used to drop creatures, presumably to make it so that you can't drop your entire dungeon on the enemy's doorstep all at once.

.. Now I have to go and find out if I just dreamed that up or if it's actually true. *Hunts*
 

Nepene

Blood Imp
WFTO Backer
Jan 7, 2013
74
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#4
With or without the mana system you can't drop your dungeon on the enemy, they have zones of influences. You have to force your way in slowly.
 

Cultist Joris

Ember Demon
WFTO Founder
Dec 30, 2012
1,555
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#5
...such as fixing a long time issue of DK2, the plop factor, where all your creatures are piled in a heap near the enemy and get up and fight.
This can also be solved by limiting the max. amount of creatures you can hold at a time from 8 to 3 or 2... Or limiting dropping area so it's impossible to drop creatures in a certain radius around a battle...
 

Grhym

Blood Imp
WFTO Backer
Jan 1, 2013
26
5
5
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Switzerland
#6
This can also be solved by limiting the max. amount of creatures you can hold at a time from 8 to 3 or 2... Or limiting dropping area so it's impossible to drop creatures in a certain radius around a battle...
It was said by the devs (I think it was on the livestream) that picking up minions will cost some kind of mana to stop this abusive mechanic. So dont be surprised to see this behaviour less and less ^^
 

Inlaa

Priestess
Jan 11, 2012
426
134
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Texas
#7
I believe I've heard that somewhere, too, about it costing mana. And, really, I didn't like the whole drop-an-army-from-my-hand deal anyway.

...

If I'm dropping an army from my hand, I want it to be more like tossing things from my hand in Black and White. LET MY MINIONS FLY ACROSS THE DUNGEON AND HIT THE WALLS! AAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!
 
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Robofish

Necromancer
WFTO Founder
Dec 1, 2012
507
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#9
I don't have a problem with dropping your army at the enemy doorstep, they can likewise drop theirs down in defense. What I dislike however is the picking them straight back up, and plopping them down again rinse and repeat routine of combat to keep the battle in your territory where you have the advantage. I would like it if there was kind of a zone around where 2 keepers met, where either both or neither keeper could take certain actions such as casting spells and dropping imps to save dying creatures, regardless of whose tile it is.
 
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Ben Chandler

Impassibly Cool
WFTO Backer
Jan 23, 2013
311
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#10
back to topic of thread... i think environmental factors are a great idea... perhaps, tangled roots which force creatures to move slower,, or icy ground, which can cause creatures to fall (maybe too comical) other such environmental factors which affect the game-play and the behavior of creatures
 
Likes: Amon
Jan 7, 2012
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#11
there was a poison gas suggestion some while ago, which had the function of an anti flying area. Gas breaches because of gas filled caves in difficult levels, could make the exploring of small caverns more dangerous.
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#12
This can also be solved by limiting the max. amount of creatures you can hold at a time from 8 to 3 or 2... Or limiting dropping area so it's impossible to drop creatures in a certain radius around a battle...
8 should be the very minimum. Also there should be an ability to instantly teleport all your creatures to selected title under your control if you are going to push/claim. Being forced to drop creature one by one would take too much time/blood especially if you have large army.

As for EE - cave-ins that create impassable huge stones that must be digged again, sudden eruption of lava that turn tiles into lava, water springs that do the same or even some kind of land mines could do the job. Could aswell be controlled by a randomizer system. However, I'm not sure if this is great this as it may slow down way too much for one player, while a lucky one won't get any trouble at all.
 

Ben Chandler

Impassibly Cool
WFTO Backer
Jan 23, 2013
311
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#13
Linking with new environmental ideas:>>>​
NEW TILE SUGGESTION:

Waters of Oblivion/Abyssal Waters/Stygian Waters: basically a new water tile which has much more interesting affects.

APPEARANCE: some sort of black water, possibly with the faces of the dead swirling in it?

Idea linked with underworld theme (i.e. river Styx) and other mythological waters (Water's of Oblivion - middle eastern folk tales)
The River Styx was a river filled with the souls of the dead and sometimes regarded deadly cold and toxic - interesting to have a truly underworld environment down to the depths of Hades' realm.
And the Waters of Oblivion was the water found in the depths of a Hell like realm, which had the power to wipe the memories of those who drank it.

It could have a few one of many affects: First and foremost - deals cold and dark/unholy damage.
-On top of that, going with river Styx theme - If a being dies while in the water (either being attacked, or from damage caused in it) it will become some sort of neutral hostile un-dead shade/ghost/skeleton.
-OR with the Waters of Oblivion theme - If a being spends too long in this water, they lose their memories [may be become hostile neutral or just simply lose allegiance with all and become docile neutral]

Quite powerful, but I think would be an interesting tactic changer if were found in later levels adding more dangers to no-man's land.

(COULD MAKE THIS SEPARATE THREAD - but spare Lordofriva the trouble, keeping environmental suggestions together ;) )

***** ALSO FURTHER NOTE: I feel that on cold levels, if there were rivers and water, it should do cold damage like arctic ocean {perhaps separate slightly icier water tile} *****
 

Lord of Riva

The Lord
WFTO Founder
Dec 29, 2012
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#14
(Oh yes thanks to you Ben_Chandler for using the old topic ;) this way all relevant information about that topic will be in one place ;) )

i like the idea of this but there are two things we should think about.

1. if Bridges can be build over it there wouldnt be any danger since normally a creature wouldnt be exposed to the effect... (even more since if i remember correctly the devs want to avoid insta win Buttons like the storm gust skill in DK 1 ---> skills that Push enemies into hazards) but if you cant build bridges on it the DMG of the tile might be a problem since in my eyes its not really any different of lava (with an interesting additional effect yes, but still lava.) im absolutely in favor of ambient changes (in ice levels for example ) that changes the appearance of Lava but not with the effects ;)

2. It cant be used in Multiplayer ... why? well its a very interesting concept in my eyes for the campaign: You have to fight over an Area against an underlord who has his dungeon Build alongside the River Styx using it for his own defense trying to force battles with you in it... in this case the undead you described could be scripted into going (slowly) to your Dungeon heart nice idea..

In multiplayer is the Problem : If you make it a Bottleneck where you have to fight creatures will die in it ... then we have two options for the undead:
1. they are moving Randomly / or to a randomly chosen Underlord Heart (and i just dont want to win or lose because of some random luck)
2. they are not moving at all/ just inside the river Styx thus creating a wall of Undeads hindering gameplay.
(if they die after a time it would just make the tiles pointless since its only effect would be stalling the game)

and if the Styx is just used as some Tiles in the map where you probably wont fight it becomes just uninteresting.

Conclusion:
Singleplayer or Ambient (just as lava Tile depending on the area) : YAY
Multiplayer: NAY
 

Ben Chandler

Impassibly Cool
WFTO Backer
Jan 23, 2013
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#15
I think that's fair summary. Maybe could be only on the higher level campaign levels ... or even expansion (Deeper into the Underworld>>>> made that up!)
 
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Robofish

Necromancer
WFTO Founder
Dec 1, 2012
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#16
Again sticking to the pre-existing thread, what about a type of terrain where either heroes/creatures have an advantage e.g. holy/corrupted ground?

This would work regardless of conversion, so perhaps on holy ground your cultists, gnarlings etc take damage over time or are slowed, or weakened or something, but juggernaut's and the like, even if they belong to an underlord are unaffected. This would make for either good middle ground to hold, or for particularly challenging combats unless you are able to use some form of clever strategy to lure the empire from said ground, or send in your own converted heroes. Perhaps it could even be some kind of bridgeable terrain, so long as you don't mind marching your minions through a potential ambush single file?
 
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Cultist

Blood Imp
Feb 12, 2013
29
14
5
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#17
As mentioned before:
Unholy grounds
heroes and minions, who died at Unholy tiles have a chance to resurrect as a hostile(or friendly) skeletons\zombies\vampires\wraiths\other undead creatures. Undead minions get buffs and regenerate on this grounds. Living creaqtures have a penalty to stats and can't be healerd\regenerate.
Arcane ground
Magic users get their spells empowered\reduced cooldown. Spells cast by the player have empowered effect.
Magic damper
Opposite effect - negative effect on magic users. Player i prevented from casting the spells.
 

Lord of Riva

The Lord
WFTO Founder
Dec 29, 2012
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#18
Again sticking to the pre-existing thread, what about a type of terrain where either heroes/creatures have an advantage e.g. holy/corrupted ground?
Holy Ground has been announced (no Zone of control for anyone there) (which is the same as magic damper by Cultist)
 

Fireeye

Augre
WFTO Backer
Dec 30, 2012
1,155
687
515
Ze Germany
#19
How about some environmental dangers other than lava? One idea would be a floor tile overgrown with mushrooms that emit toxic spores (or alternatively a fissure that emits toxic gases) which would slowly damage your units if they remain inside - think of Tiberium Poisoning in the CnC Universe.

Now that I think of CnC, you could also add a version of these tiles that only damage creatures of a particular size or type, e.g. a tile that only damages the large, brutish minions but allows smaller ones to pass unharmed - I'm thinking of something similar to Tiberian Sun's Veinhole monster.
 
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