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Fortified walls- dig through ?

Fortified walls

  • We have the ability to dig fortified walls

    Votes: 9 64.3%
  • We do not have the ability to dig fortified walls

    Votes: 5 35.7%

  • Total voters
    14

Limp

Cultist
Feb 21, 2014
55
14
195
37
Russian Federation, Moscow.
#1
Hello to all Underlords & DEV team!:)
You are making a great job & i`m very grateful to you that i can play WFTO already!:D

I want to talk about digging trough fortifered walls. For this moment we can do it in WFTO.
Simply put, the enemy can dig through our fortified walls! Then what they make sense?...o_O
The same "mistake" was made in DK2. In this case, absolutely no sense to build defenses of your dungeon,as the breakout point could be anywhere.. In WFTO the same situation.


I want all of you remember DK1. If you fortified you wall, no one can`t break though. The onle one way get htrough, to use spell "Destroy wall".in this embodiment there is no need to worry that the invasion could be anywhere. You can plan your defences & entrance in your dungeon :)

In WFTO 3 ways get through fortifired walls. (If i am correct)
1) Dig through...no gold needed.
2) Construct - Underminer 2000 gold. Very beautifull and usefull. With this construct you can fly away... :)
3) Potion - Hellfire 7500 gold. Why do we need this potion. Expensive, alchemy lab nedeed & Crackpot.

I don`t inderstand why DEV team made 2 almost the same 2 & 3 options.
For me, i will use only "Underminer" for blasting and breakthrough.

Important:
Dev team, please will reconsider this opportunity. Disable the ability to dig a fortified wall.
Case:
1) Underlords will have opportunity to plan their dungeons & and use defenses more intelligently and thoughtfully.
2) This will give the opportunity to make defense more efficiently saving mana. Because protection tretise mana. If i am correct
3) For a breakthrough or explosion will need to earn gold and more efficiently use "Underminer" because this the only way to remain.
4) what is the point in the fortified walls (in addition to external beauty)if they can dig?
5) Look at anciet castles, ancient fortifications and prisons. How many do not dig, not able to dig through.
One way is a blast. (If we are talking about WFTO)

6) If we can`t dig through fortifired walls, it will bring more action, brain activity and more exciting gameplay:)

And one thing...
Underminer and Hellfire have the same options. So, if it will be me, a`ll remove "Hellfire"
1) More expensively
2) We have "Underminer"
3) Alchemy lab & Crackpot needed
4) The same result...

The same construct - "Replacement wall" - 500 gold
"Replacement wall" - It`s better and faster and it already have in start level.
Defences - "Augrum wall" - 4000 gold even this its fortification. You can save vein of evil and gold not using it for "Augrum wall".

Sorry for my Englich & sorry if I someone than hurt.
DEV your are my gods:). I`m wayting for such game as WFTO since DK2. Almost 14 years already...
Thanks guys .

Good luck...Underlords;)
It`s good to be bad...:D
 

Attachments

Likes: Tilen
Feb 19, 2014
46
5
185
36
Sweden
#2
Removing the ability to dig through fortified walls feels a little to unbalanced for defensive players when it comes to PvP.

Remember though that they have increased the "hardiness" of the fortified walls compared to DK2 so they are stronger now. This together with the fact that you can repair the walls while they are attacked feels strong enough for me.
 

Limp

Cultist
Feb 21, 2014
55
14
195
37
Russian Federation, Moscow.
#3
Removing the ability to dig through fortified walls feels a little to unbalanced for defensive players when it comes to PvP.you can repair the walls while they are attacked feels strong enough for me.
Repair - Only if Ai dig through.
In multiplayer there will be no time for repairing.

Defensive players - well it will be a real massacre with blood.
 

Marados

Matriarch
WFTO Founder
Dec 18, 2013
601
316
435
Germany
#4
Hey Limp,

I am not sure about the gameplay changes when the players couldn't break through fortified walls anymore.
I don't think you would have any benefit of it because you can still break it with explosions.
So you wouldn't feel any safer and you wouldn't have to plan your defences more.
I don't think this change would really matter.

Underminer and Hellfire have the same options. So, if it will be me, a`ll remove "Hellfire"
1) More expensively
2) We have "Underminer"
3) Alchemy lab & Crackpot needed
4) The same result...
The Hellfire potion isn't balanced yet. I agree it is way to expensive!
But I am still the opinion it is a (sometimes) really important vein in the game.
In some situations you don't have the time or space to build an Underminer.
Then you can easily prepare this potion in your well secured Alchemy and release it really fast on the enemy (without any warning)!

The same construct - "Replacement wall" - 500 gold
"Replacement wall" - It`s better and faster and it already have in start level.
Defences - "Augrum wall" - 4000 gold even this its fortification. You can save vein of evil and gold not using it for "Augrum wall".
Augrum walls are stronger. Fortified the really have a lot more health!
So you need much longer to break through them.
On some defense points at the edge of your territory I still think this might be a good solution to keep your enemys away.
Maybe this could even be more heavy, e.g. not being able to break through it by explosions or being not able to mine it.

Regards,
Marados
 

Skorp

Gargoyle
Feb 1, 2014
290
96
300
25
#5
I think that the answer to your problems is the garrison, a room that creates an area where the walls and defenses are stronger. With this and some of your imps repairing you can keep the enemy from digging your walls forever. Add a soul well (a defense not yet included that causes damage throught walls) and you can actually kill the assaulting imps, so you dont even have to worry about repairing. The Augrum wall is suposed to be even better but at the moment its just not worth it, for that price it should be near indestructible.

On the offensive you can use rituals and potions to speed up the workers and the siege srhine reduces the time needed to break a wall, so the agresor wants it in order to assault the enemy dungeon and the defensor wants it so the other player can't have it. Currently the underminer is cheap, doesn't need rooms and can be build near anywhere, so I expect hellfire to get a buff.
 

Nutter

Frost Weaver
WFTO Founder
Jan 19, 2013
2,453
1,094
610
31
Huddersfield, UK
nutter666.tumblr.com
#6
The other thing you haven't consider is this:

Underminer - Cheap, can be placed anywhere but has a "timer" before it explodes, during which a defending player can either destroy it.. or prepare themselves.
Hellfire Potion - More expensive, can only be dropped on own player owned land, but is instant, meaning that the other person has no chance to counteract it.
 

Skorp

Gargoyle
Feb 1, 2014
290
96
300
25
#7
The other thing you haven't consider is this:

Underminer - Cheap, can be placed anywhere but has a "timer" before it explodes, during which a defending player can either destroy it.. or prepare themselves.
Hellfire Potion - More expensive, can only be dropped on own player owned land, but is instant, meaning that the other person has no chance to counteract it.
Still, if the enemy manages to destroy the underminer it means that the attack was going to fail anyway since he didn't even needed to use spells or defenses. Also, you could build it without being next to the wall, so it would stay hidden until the explosion. I still cannot see a situation where the underminer couldn't be used equally or better than hellfire, do you have any other examples?
 
Jan 3, 2013
3,248
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#8
The other thing you haven't consider is this:

Underminer - Cheap, can be placed anywhere but has a "timer" before it explodes, during which a defending player can either destroy it.. or prepare themselves.
Hellfire Potion - More expensive, can only be dropped on own player owned land, but is instant, meaning that the other person has no chance to counteract it.
I'm yet to see anyone preventing the underminer from detonation.

As for unbreakable walls - I feel like it should be one of those level customization settings, among with rooms, spells, rituals, traps and other things.
 

Nutter

Frost Weaver
WFTO Founder
Jan 19, 2013
2,453
1,094
610
31
Huddersfield, UK
nutter666.tumblr.com
#9
Still, if the enemy manages to destroy the underminer it means that the attack was going to fail anyway since he didn't even needed to use spells or defenses. Also, you could build it without being next to the wall, so it would stay hidden until the explosion. I still cannot see a situation where the underminer couldn't be used equally or better than hellfire, do you have any other examples?
How do you expect it to take out the wall without being next to it (hidden?), it has a small blast radius for a reason.
 

Nutter

Frost Weaver
WFTO Founder
Jan 19, 2013
2,453
1,094
610
31
Huddersfield, UK
nutter666.tumblr.com
#10
I'm yet to see anyone preventing the underminer from detonation.

As for unbreakable walls - I feel like it should be one of those level customization settings, among with rooms, spells, rituals, traps and other things.
Have you guys seen the Undeminer in construct form yet? Im not sure how much stuff is in your build vs the internal one,

But to clarify, in order to "build" a underminer (and any other construct) a worker has to be able to reach it, and do the construct (dance) ritual.. all you have to do, to stop an underminer now is scare off the worker and then attack the blueprint and it's gone.
 
Jan 3, 2013
3,248
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#11
Have you guys seen the Undeminer in construct form yet? Im not sure how much stuff is in your build vs the internal one,

But to clarify, in order to "build" a underminer (and any other construct) a worker has to be able to reach it, and do the construct (dance) ritual.. all you have to do, to stop an underminer now is scare off the worker and then attack the blueprint and it's gone.
This is why nobody will place underminer like that. Your opponent will make a tunnel to your walls and start making an underminer on his territory. Good luck stopping that one without exposing yourself too much.
 

Skorp

Gargoyle
Feb 1, 2014
290
96
300
25
#12
How do you expect it to take out the wall without being next to it (hidden?), it has a small blast radius for a reason.
Sorry, I didnt explained it properly. I meant that if you have claimed the ground next to the enemy walls you can buid the underminer two tiles away from them and it would be hidden from sight. Unless there is a garrison or warding totem near, of course.
 

Nutter

Frost Weaver
WFTO Founder
Jan 19, 2013
2,453
1,094
610
31
Huddersfield, UK
nutter666.tumblr.com
#13
This is why nobody will place underminer like that. Your opponent will make a tunnel to your walls and start making an underminer on his territory. Good luck stopping that one without exposing yourself too much.
So in that situation, is it not even better to drop a hellfire potion, giving the other person no chance whatsoever to react?
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#14
So in that situation, is it not even better to drop a hellfire potion, giving the other person no chance whatsoever to react?
Depends.

On maps where every gold coin matters, underminer will do just fine. Besides, underminer is easier to acquire than hellfire potion.
 

Valtiel

Priestess
Aug 28, 2014
94
41
205
36
#16
I think that the answer to your problems is the garrison, a room that creates an area where the walls and defenses are stronger. With this and some of your imps repairing you can keep the enemy from digging your walls forever. Add a soul well (a defense not yet included that causes damage throught walls) and you can actually kill the assaulting imps, so you dont even have to worry about repairing. The Augrum wall is suposed to be even better but at the moment its just not worth it, for that price it should be near indestructible.

On the offensive you can use rituals and potions to speed up the workers and the siege srhine reduces the time needed to break a wall, so the agresor wants it in order to assault the enemy dungeon and the defensor wants it so the other player can't have it. Currently the underminer is cheap, doesn't need rooms and can be build near anywhere, so I expect hellfire to get a buff.
1) I thought the garrison made walls invulnerable? The balancing factor being that between the limited area of effect and the cost, there's basically no way to cover your whole dungeon in it. Of course, that might have been a while ago.

2) Oooh. The soul well sounds brilliant. Can we hear a bit more about that?

3) I'm not sure how the devs are planning on making Augrum even vaguely balanced, given the awkwardness of using it (only affects one tile at a time, needs the space to be mined out and claimed). Is it meant as a reactive way to seal a breach? Because I can see it being very useful in that regard. Keep a stockpile of defense parts, fight off your opponent's initial attack, and then quickly deploy Augrum walls to block the breach.
Hell, with the Spirit Workers potion you could even plug the hole with Augrum while the enemy are still trying to push forwards. Only problem with this is that it's reactive and it doesn't get you any closer to actually winning unless you manage to trap enemies on the inside - and in that case, a simple door would probably have done the job better.

4) The obvious answer to that balance question is for the Hellfire potion to work on garrisoned walls and Augrum and for the Underminer to only work on normal fortified walls. However, I don't really like that approach - it's very simplistic and doesn't really incorporate an element of player choice, and if your opponent doesn't have Augrum or Garrisons, Hellfire is the strictly worse option. If it were up to me, I'd make a ticking Underminer nice and obvious when someone sets you up the bomb, while the first you know about the Hellfire potion is when all your base are belong to them.

(I apologise for the oldmeme in that last one, I realize that makes it quite hard to read. What I mean is this: If an opponent starts to create an Underminer next to one of your walls, you get warned about it straight away with some time to prepare or counter-attack. The Hellfire potion lacks this drawback, and is consequently more expensive.)
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#17
If every gold coin matters, you're doing something wrong.. Gold is piss easy (excuse the brit slang) to acquire.
It seems you are playing different game or different map. Gold always matters on maps where you don't have a gold shrine right in front of you.
 

Nutter

Frost Weaver
WFTO Founder
Jan 19, 2013
2,453
1,094
610
31
Huddersfield, UK
nutter666.tumblr.com
#18
It seems you are playing different game or different map. Gold always matters on maps where you don't have a gold shrine right in front of you.
My immediate reply to that is: Avarice, Transmutation Potion, Blood Money.

Gold is only an issue if you're not managing it correctly. Otherwise it's one of the easiest resources to acquire and recycle.
Weren't you just complaining yesterday that the game was too easy, and now you're saying you don't get enough gold, make up your mind.
 
Jan 3, 2013
3,248
741
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#19
My immediate reply to that is: Avarice, Transmutation Potion, Blood Money.

Gold is only an issue if you're not managing it correctly. Otherwise it's one of the easiest resources to acquire and recycle.
Weren't you just complaining yesterday that the game was too easy, and now you're saying you don't get enough gold, make up your mind.
By the time you start doing these things, you will be either cornered, dead or you are playing the turtle game.

Blood Money is barely useful, Avarice/Sanctuary still require some gold and time. On maps without shrine, it makes more sense to go for gold seams asap, instead of ''farming'' the gold slowly like that.
 

Nutter

Frost Weaver
WFTO Founder
Jan 19, 2013
2,453
1,094
610
31
Huddersfield, UK
nutter666.tumblr.com
#20
By the time you start doing these things, you will be either cornered, dead or you are playing the turtle game.

Blood Money is barely useful, Avarice/Sanctuary still require some gold and time. On maps without shrine, it makes more sense to go for gold seams asap, instead of ''farming'' the gold slowly like that.
Blood Money is a great way to make "use" of prisoners, not so great for your own units.

The issue here is, your playstyle is very wrathy, and therefore you have no back up plan for when the gold runs out... and that's kind of the point. That's where sloth gains it's advantage.. by surviving until wrath runs out of steam and then rolling over them.

You're choosing to ignore those options and then complaining about lack of gold.
 
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