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[Gameplay mechanic] Trading

Good idea?


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Enjou

Ember Demon
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Jan 10, 2012
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#2
Gold is easy enough. If you can drop things into allied area of influence, you can just drop gold into their treasury.

Mana I don't think needs trading, as it regenerates but is intended to have a small pool so you're careful with using it.
 

Cold_Ankles

Skarg
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Dec 10, 2011
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#3
Perhaps MP has a spell that allows you to boost the other player's mana regen/levels. Perhaps they've invested more in player-cast spells of ultimate destruction. In regards to the gold, trading in age of empires had two markets (yours and theirs) and trade carts would generate gold by going between them. Enjou's suggestion works fine for a tribute of gold but not the gold generation scheme which requires more thought. I mean how are they trading the gold? I tend to make way too many trade carts.
 

Mozared

Juggernaut
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Feb 17, 2013
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#4
Hmmmmmmmmm.

I wouldn't say it's a 'bad idea' per say, I just think it's not very useful in WFTO. As Enjou pointed out, gold is the main thing that has a function in being trade-able and it pretty much already is. Blood is the old mana (iirc) and mana really doesn't need to be tradeable. Think about it - what would it add to the game if you could send mana to your ally? You could 'manually' sustain his overdose of traps and he could focus on spamming spells while you sort out units. That's about it though, and all these perks are so minor that they're hardly worth the process of going to a 'trade menu' and sending your ally mana.

For that reason I'm gonna say no. It would be cool if some alternate things in the game were tradeable or usable by your allies (minions, traps/trap blueprints, rooms, that kind of stuff), but as far as 'resource trading' goes, I think we're already set.
 

Cold_Ankles

Skarg
WFTO Backer
Dec 10, 2011
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#5
It would be cool if some alternate things in the game were tradeable or usable by your allies (minions, traps/trap blueprints, rooms, that kind of stuff), but as far as 'resource trading' goes, I think we're already set.
If you're allied perhaps there could be an option to share room and trap blueprints, spells with each other. If they have the requirements you could 'gift' a minion to them etc. You could each focus on a single vein of evil, sharing your unlocks with your allies? Of course if you then unallied maybe your vein (say, wrath) gives you a big advantage to stab them (with greed) in the back when they no longer have your unlocks. Or something.
This idea needs moar input.
 

Peetfighter

Augre
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Jan 23, 2013
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#6
Hmmmmmmmmm.

I wouldn't say it's a 'bad idea' per say, I just think it's not very useful in WFTO. As Enjou pointed out, gold is the main thing that has a function in being trade-able and it pretty much already is. Blood is the old mana (iirc) and mana really doesn't need to be tradeable. Think about it - what would it add to the game if you could send mana to your ally? You could 'manually' sustain his overdose of traps and he could focus on spamming spells while you sort out units. That's about it though, and all these perks are so minor that they're hardly worth the process of going to a 'trade menu' and sending your ally mana.

For that reason I'm gonna say no. It would be cool if some alternate things in the game were tradeable or usable by your allies (minions, traps/trap blueprints, rooms, that kind of stuff), but as far as 'resource trading' goes, I think we're already set.
Alright, I'll leave mana and blood out. And I didn't say anything about a trade menu, Enjou's idea of simply dropping it into a treasure room of an ally is good to me.
 

Enjou

Ember Demon
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Jan 10, 2012
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#7
If you're allied perhaps there could be an option to share room and trap blueprints, spells with each other. If they have the requirements you could 'gift' a minion to them etc. You could each focus on a single vein of evil, sharing your unlocks with your allies? Of course if you then unallied maybe your vein (say, wrath) gives you a big advantage to stab them (with greed) in the back when they no longer have your unlocks. Or something.
This idea needs moar input.
That would be awful. Any side that uses this will have a significant advantage over those that don't.
 
Likes: Peetfighter
Jan 3, 2013
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#8
Trade requires a specific approach.

Sloth players most likely will be the ones who will trade their gold with allies since they will have it too much while Wrath players will need it the most.

I suggest a cooldown and amount cap so there won't be a farmer + solder tactic in the game.
 

Enjou

Ember Demon
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Jan 10, 2012
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#9
Trade requires a specific approach.

Sloth players most likely will be the ones who will trade their gold with allies since they will have it too much while Wrath players will need it the most.

I suggest a cooldown and amount cap so there won't be a farmer + solder tactic in the game.
Actually Greed players will have the most, since economy is the function of that vein. Sloth will likely have the most limited amount considering they will turtle and expand the least. Wrath can get more gold by finding more on the map.
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#10
Actually Greed players will have the most, since economy is the function of that vein. Sloth will likely have the most limited amount considering they will turtle and expand the least. Wrath can get more gold by finding more on the map.
Sloth is meant to have lots of resources at the cost of troop strength. If Sloth player won't be rich he aswell can consider himself dead because there will be no late game for him. Greed player will certainly have all gold reserved for personal use while Wrath player will be the one who will hunger for gold.

With trading, Sloth player will be more of ''support'' style, wich means he will be sitting tight and support either Greed or Wrath ally who will be doing the most of the job. I can imagine Wrath player with lots of gold and huge army, wiping everything on his way.
 

Enjou

Ember Demon
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#12
Sloth is meant to have lots of resources at the cost of troop strength.
I'm not sure where that has been said. Sloth has lots of traps, defenses, and spells, but nothing has been said about troop strength as far as I know. I find troop numbers to be a more likely issue.

If Sloth player won't be rich he aswell can consider himself dead because there will be no late game for him.
Yes, this is why Greed is strong against Sloth - late game is where Greed shines above the other veins because that's when Greed can outresource them. (by making gold with Alchemists) Greed will be able to afford more troops and can bust through the defenses with sheer numbers, or will just be able to wait out the siege in comfort while Sloth starves for gold to pay its minions and go in after most of its minions have left.

Also, if Sloth expands minimally and turtles, where exactly will it get more gold from?

With trading, Sloth player will be more of ''support'' style, wich means he will be sitting tight and support either Greed or Wrath ally who will be doing the most of the job. I can imagine Wrath player with lots of gold and huge army, wiping everything on his way.
A Wrath player has a similar issue that Sloth does in the late game, except they are in an even worse position. By late game a Wrath player will have a lot of minions needing pay, and even with the gold on the map they capture that might not be enough. Sloth's defenses only need to be paid for once, so they can maintain a smaller army and still be safe. Sloth will require managing limited resources effectively, so you can't really count on a Sloth player for monetary support.

Greed will be the best support, because Greed will have the most excess gold needed to support their allies by keeping their armies paid.
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#13
I doubt any vein player will try to turtle too much.

Wrath most likely will finish game early. Greed will try to do the same, or at least somewhere between mid-late game. Sloth players will have to gain advantage early or they will end up dying before they start shining.

However, in 2v2, game strategy is different. Players will try to combine 2 veins, becoming even stronger, may in some cases too strong. Sloth player won't have to worry about troops since Wraith ally will deal with both enemies. Sloth player won't have to worry about territory too, as Greed ally will have all portals stolen/secured. All Sloth player will have to do is get fat as soon as possible and support his ally.

I just hope devs will find the way to balance this somehow, because otherwise it will be Sloth + Greed or Wrath, never Wrath + Greed.
 
Likes: Peetfighter

Peetfighter

Augre
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#14
I'm not sure where that has been said. Sloth has lots of traps, defenses, and spells, but nothing has been said about troop strength as far as I know. I find troop numbers to be a more likely issue.



Yes, this is why Greed is strong against Sloth - late game is where Greed shines above the other veins because that's when Greed can outresource them. (by making gold with Alchemists) Greed will be able to afford more troops and can bust through the defenses with sheer numbers, or will just be able to wait out the siege in comfort while Sloth starves for gold to pay its minions and go in after most of its minions have left.

Also, if Sloth expands minimally and turtles, where exactly will it get more gold from?



A Wrath player has a similar issue that Sloth does in the late game, except they are in an even worse position. By late game a Wrath player will have a lot of minions needing pay, and even with the gold on the map they capture that might not be enough. Sloth's defenses only need to be paid for once, so they can maintain a smaller army and still be safe. Sloth will require managing limited resources effectively, so you can't really count on a Sloth player for monetary support.

Greed will be the best support, because Greed will have the most excess gold needed to support their allies by keeping their armies paid.
Reading your post makes it look like Greed is pretty overpowered, are you sure it works like that?
 

Tenebris

Bafu
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Feb 2, 2013
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#15
I find it quaint that people are assuming that A) Wrath means "kill within 10 minutes" B) Greed somehow can't support Wrath. What Wrath is going to be kneecapped by is resources. Resources that Greed can offer him. Meanwhile, a Wrath player can keep the opponent on their heels while a Greed player gets their necessary bits and bobs.

Also, the forbidden notion is the fact that you don't just purevein then stop. Even if you purevein you eventually run out of things to research and start canvassing the other veins if only for lack of aught else.

It's a wonderful mix and match opportunity. What I'm curious to see is how a 3v3 game will play out with one player speccing each vein. And if Sloth can effectively reinforce his allies' dungeon. Could produce some interesting co-ordination.
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#16
I find it quaint that people are assuming that A) Wrath means "kill within 10 minutes" B) Greed somehow can't support Wrath. What Wrath is going to be kneecapped by is resources. Resources that Greed can offer him. Meanwhile, a Wrath player can keep the opponent on their heels while a Greed player gets their necessary bits and bobs.

Also, the forbidden notion is the fact that you don't just purevein then stop. Even if you purevein you eventually run out of things to research and start canvassing the other veins if only for lack of aught else.

It's a wonderful mix and match opportunity. What I'm curious to see is how a 3v3 game will play out with one player speccing each vein. And if Sloth can effectively reinforce his allies' dungeon. Could produce some interesting co-ordination.
Technically if multiplayer will have Veins, then players will have to decide what combo they will go. With Sloth being the best at hoarding, this player will go support and focus on mining as much gold as possible while others will go for portal and territory control. The thing is, Sloth player is the one that is little known and at some point unfitting, compared to others who have specific roles and pretty much counter each other.
 

Tenebris

Bafu
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Feb 2, 2013
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#17
Technically if multiplayer will have Veins, then players will have to decide what combo they will go. With Sloth being the best at hoarding, this player will go support and focus on mining as much gold as possible while others will go for portal and territory control. The thing is, Sloth player is the one that is little known and at some point unfitting, compared to others who have specific roles and pretty much counter each other.
...Did you mean Greed?
 

Cultist Joris

Huntress
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Dec 30, 2012
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#18
In the end it doesn't really matter, WftO will be pay to win. Via microtransactions you can get access to the 'Sammy'-vein which will be massive overpowered (only 30£) and has a lengendary creature: the Democorn (additional 10£)... ;)
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#19
...Did you mean Greed?
Sloth.

Greed players as announced are natural counters to Wrath players so it's obvious they will have to act early too or else they will give away too much territory and control.

Sloth is the one for late game, so logically it shall be the best for gold farming since it won't offer much early/mid game, other than free gold support.
 

Tenebris

Bafu
WFTO Backer
Feb 2, 2013
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#20
Sloth.

Greed players as announced are natural counters to Wrath so it's obvious they will have act early too or else they will give away too much territory and control.

Sloth is the one for late game, so logically it shall be the best for gold farming since it won't offer much early/mid game, other than free gold support.
Except it was announced that Sloth counters Wrath, Greed counters Sloth and Wrath counters Greed?
 
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