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[Gameplay/Mechanics (not shure)] Imp upgrade.

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Jax0K

Spirit
WFTO Backer
Jan 10, 2013
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#1
Just a thought:

At some point when your Blood Imp gets to a certain level (like 5) they get new tools (like a jackhammer or a drill).

I thought it would be fun to see the imps using them and since they are magical creatures they could just summon or magically create them on the spot when they need them and dig with them till they don´t need them any more (like speed or teleport in DK2).

:D
 

Lord of Riva

The Lord
WFTO Founder
Dec 29, 2012
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#3
It would be nice to know how good (or bad) of an idea this is.

Its a little late right? ;)
well im here to save the day :D

i like the idea (as all changing appearances through something) not really sure what to say , but yeah i like it ;)

will put it on the list tomorrow (im sleepy now, and my semester break has ended today)

---> Misc
 
Dec 14, 2012
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#4
Certainly something to research/invent in the archives/workshop.

Unless they just get it upon achieving level 5, it would make them at a higher level more valuable, like a Level 3 Imp was on DKI when it gained Speed Monster.
 

Tommonius

Necromancer
WFTO Backer
Dec 15, 2012
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Wolverhampton
#5
I was wondering about this with the removal of blood back to mana and the change of heart to a new name to remove the organic theme I wonder if Blood imps will just be imps, if a blood theme is optional like something you unlock then would you say have a regular imp that turns into Blood imps, more efficient and less cowardly than standard imps maybe.
 
Dec 14, 2012
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#6
Mana was implemented poorly in DKII, compared to the whole "Everything costs gold" in DKI, in all honesty I think it was the lack of being able to power-up the strength of a spell when they introduced mana which was silly, especially when 'Traps' drained the mana, but that was an engine thing back then to stop too many traps being placed and what made mana implementation worse was that the traps were incredibly ineffective.

But that's a whole other topic.

If the Workshop allowed the ability for creatures with tools/weapons to be upgraded then that'd be cool, it'd make the Workshop more valuable as a room but this is definitely something to trial with the Blood Imps since no matter what it won't imbalance the game.
 
Jun 27, 2012
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#7
please no jackhammers or other horribly out of place devices. the pickaxe is just fine.

Maybe they could grow a bit bigger and more muscular though, and as such become able to carry more gold and take down walls faster.
 

Jax0K

Spirit
WFTO Backer
Jan 10, 2013
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#8
Well they can get stronger but a pickaxe loses it's purpose once they can carry a jackhammer or use a drill because swinging a pickaxe would get faster when they are stronger but not as much as a jackhammer or drill, which would mean a complete waste of time considering the fact that the maps are probably going to be gigantic. Also the jackhammer could be powered by the Blood Imp and when he runs out of energy the jackhammer would disappear. It isn't out of place considering the fact that magic exists in the world where they live in and they should be able to create almost anything they can think of.
 

Enjou

Ember Demon
WFTO Backer
Jan 10, 2012
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#9
It isn't out of place considering the fact that magic exists in the world where they live in and they should be able to create almost anything they can think of.
By this logic the Empire should be assaulting our dungeons with plasma rifles. Magic doesn't automatically grant you technology, nor does it automatically make things possible - most fictional worlds with magic in them have magic adhere to some kind of rules that limit its usefulness. In fact, magic is often the reason some worlds have the Medieval Stasis trope. For a jackhammer you might somehow convert magic into a power source, but you'd still need to know the mechanics of it to make one.
 

Jax0K

Spirit
WFTO Backer
Jan 10, 2013
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#10
Well a rod in a barrel/tube going back and fourth with the help of magic isn't hard to figure out (It-is-magic,-I-ain't-gotta-explain-shit.jpg). And besides isn't a wand or magic-rod that can fire fireballs and lighting basically a substitute for guns or rifles. Also it seems that some mechanics are used in the training room (not that it would probably be enough to equal the complexity of a real jackhammer).

PS: I just noticed you have been a member exactly a year longer than me.:cool:
 

Enjou

Ember Demon
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Jan 10, 2012
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#11
Well a rod in a barrel/tube going back and fourth with the help of magic isn't hard to figure out (It-is-magic,-I-ain't-gotta-explain-shit.jpg).
Again, magic is not an instant solution to everything. In WFTO magic requires mana to use. How much mana does it take to power a jackhammer for a certain period of time? Does your simple design require more or less mana than a mana to electricity design with actual mechanisms? Does an imp actually have the mana pool needed to continually operate one?

And really, the people in the WFTO universe may just not have thought of such a design. Magic leads to medieval stasis in some fictional universes because the smart folks who would normally be studying mundane forces are more likely to study magic instead, and their creative juices will be trying to think of magical solutions to problems. Why would you design a complicated machine if you can just enchant a normal pick to be better at digging?

And besides isn't a wand or magic-rod that can fire fireballs and lighting basically a substitute for guns or rifles.
Yes and no. They serve as ranged weapons, but not all ranged weapons are equal. First off, not everyone may be able to use magic devices - it may require years of study and practice to use magic items, and those things may only be focusing devices that only mages can use rather than something that stores a charge. On that note, bows and crossbows would still be in use in that case, but even those take time to learn to use accurately. One big advantage of guns is that you can train someone in weeks rather than years. Second, the type of damage lighting and fireballs do would be different than a bullet would do - shocking and burning vs piercing kinetic trauma. Third, there are apparently ways to temporarily silence magic users and prevent them from casting spells.

That said, magic and crossbows are probably better in a dungeon in comparison to more primitive guns given that earlier guns take a long time to reload and you don't have the luxury of time in cramped dungeon corridors when a pack of Gnarlings are charging you.

Also it seems that some mechanics are used in the training room (not that it would probably be enough to equal the complexity of a real jackhammer).
It isn't - if you look at the sides where it opens up the mechanics are based on simple gears and cogs.
 
Jun 27, 2012
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#12
why spoil your imps, the lowliest of creatures, with advanced technology? They arent worth it.

Its just way too much out of place, if you are going to throw in jackhammers in a game like this just make it a modern setting. I hate it when medieval settings must be ruined with out of place inventions that make zero sense.
 

Jax0K

Spirit
WFTO Backer
Jan 10, 2013
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#13
Well I thought that it would just be fun to see them use them, but sorry I didn't think about the technical logic of a game that really has no significant logic in it. Like in the traps you could build in DK1 and DK2 that totally worked on their own.

Again, magic is not an instant solution to everything.
Well on a mechanical standpoint it is. Name one mechanical thing magic couldn't make.

Does an imp actually have the mana pool needed to continually operate one?
Well they could teleport themselves around almost endlessly and not have any problems and the jackhammer isn't something that they would have to constantly use because they could have one made in the Workshop and than have it teleport to them and disappear once they run out of mana.

By this logic the Empire should be assaulting our dungeons with plasma rifles.
You started it.

That said, magic and crossbows are probably better in a dungeon in comparison to more primitive guns given that earlier guns take a long time to reload and you don't have the luxury of time in cramped dungeon corridors when a pack of Gnarlings are charging you.
And ended it exactly why this wouldn't happen. Also plasma rifles are really way too complex (we don't even have them) and pointless in a world of magic.

It isn't - if you look at the sides where it opens up the mechanics are based on simple gears and cogs.
Well my description of what it would be: "Well a rod in a barrel/tube going back and fourth with the help of magic isn't hard to figure out..." isn't much more complex.

why spoil your imps, the lowliest of creatures, with advanced technology? They arent worth it.
Well who else is going to dig tunnels for you?

PS: I really hate when I have to over-think things, so say what you want I don't care.
 

Enjou

Ember Demon
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Jan 10, 2012
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#15
Well I thought that it would just be fun to see them use them, but sorry I didn't think about the technical logic of a game that really has no significant logic in it. Like in the traps you could build in DK1 and DK2 that totally worked on their own.
DK1 traps had finite charges. DK2 traps were linked to the Keeper's mana pool, requiring constant upkeep while inactive and taking more mana when firing. They didn't operate for free.

Well on a mechanical standpoint it is. Name one mechanical thing magic couldn't make.
This argument is sound only if you've got infinite mana, the idea for what you want to make, and either the magical knowhow to make a simplified equivalent work or the mechanical knowhow to make a mana-powered machine. You haven't addressed the problems of finite mana and finite knowledge.

Well they could teleport themselves around almost endlessly and not have any problems and the jackhammer isn't something that they would have to constantly use because they could have one made in the Workshop and than have it teleport to them and disappear once they run out of mana.
Which ultimately means nothing. You still know nothing about the mana costs of running a jackhammer.

You started it.

And ended it exactly why this wouldn't happen. Also plasma rifles are really way too complex (we don't even have them) and pointless in a world of magic.
Why would they be pointless? If they could make a decent mana battery and the rate of fire was good they'd be useful to units that couldn't use magic.

Also, you started it and now you're contradicting yourself - did you not say "magic exists in the world where they live in and they should be able to create almost anything they can think of"? So why are plasma rifles now suddenly something they can't create?

Well my description of what it would be: "Well a rod in a barrel/tube going back and fourth with the help of magic isn't hard to figure out..." isn't much more complex.
So how much mana is required to run it? And why would someone in a medieval world think of the design in the first place? Again, why not just enchant a pick to be better at digging?

PS: I really hate when I have to over-think things, so say what you want I don't care.
You're the one who said jackhammers fit the setting - if you can't be bothered to think in order to defend the concept and you don't care what others think don't get into a debate about it.
 
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