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[Mechanic] Intelligent Doors

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Insignium

Priestess
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Dec 22, 2012
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#1
Give the weak doors (Wooden and Braced for example) a submenu that let's us controll which creatures can pass it and which ones can not.
 

Vargas

Priestess
Dec 14, 2012
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#2
Sounds like an idea that could be very useful to control the movements of your imps, amongst others. Something that I found very annoying in the DK and DK2 was the inability to control the movements of your creatures and especially the imps.
 
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Co0kieL0rd

Bafu
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Jan 29, 2012
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#3
This is a great idea. However, I think this feature should be restricted to one or more particular kinds of doors that are available later in the game. It seems too powerful to be available for cheap doors and, frankly, it doesn't make sense that of all things a simple wooden door could distinguish the species of passerbies.
 

Insignium

Priestess
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Dec 22, 2012
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#4
Well I'd make it the most basic door since directing your creatures is all they are good for. Using them for defence is pointless since they already colapse from a fairy whistleing in their general direction.
 

Co0kieL0rd

Bafu
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Jan 29, 2012
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#5
That is true, I guess. So any door should have a sub-menu, if wished for, that allows the Underlord to choose exactly which creatures can or cannot pass. I'd design it like this: either
a) the door is unlocked, with possible exceptions for one or more species which CANNOT pass through, or
b) the door is locked, with possible exceptions for one or more species which CAN pass through, or
c) the door is open - similar as in Age of Empires II where you can leave your gates open all the time. This is useful when you see enemies approaching and know they would smash your door in seconds, but you don't want to lose your expensive door now. So you leave it open so they would spare it.
 
Likes: Saint
Dec 4, 2012
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#8
Evil Genius had this feature, basically it allowed you to set every single door to a specific level of security or set them all at once with a hotkey.
F.ex.
Level 1 - Would be the basic workers
Level 2 - Would be the military minions
Level 3 - Would be only the henchmen and the evil genius
Level 4 - and as the last one, only the evil genius can go through the door.

a simple system, that worked in the players favor, as some parts of the base minions shouldn't be around, if i remember right i think if you set it to level 3 or 4, there would come a pair of military minions and they would stand on each side of the door, guarding it.
 
Sep 18, 2012
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#9
Well I'd make it the most basic door since directing your creatures is all they are good for. Using them for defence is pointless since they already colapse from a fairy whistleing in their general direction.
i think than for this very reason the weaker ones must have this characteristic, that way some doors will be usefull for filter but no to defense and some others backwards.

But by the other hands, if all the doors are filters, then we have more flexibility with the strategys who implicate doors.


in any case, i think maybie another four grades of locks for the doors will be better:


1) Full Lock; Restricted to all creatures

2) Selective Lock; just certain minions can pass and some others don't (Can select certain allys and/or players also)

3) Defensive Open;, all minions can pass, but enemys, neutrals and allys can't

4) Full Open; all minions can pass, doesn't matter what side they are from


And also, i think it would be a good idea if we add a save for door configurations we use between one game and another, that way we can select it from a list instead of load every single creature on the filter list of that door.

And this list must be a restrictive list, i think, because that way every single creature WHO DON'T APPAREAD ON THE LIST can pass through the door, that way is easier avoid mistakes, don't you think?
 

Jackpot Winner

Arcanist
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Nov 29, 2012
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#10
You shouldn't be allowed to set doors as open to allies and enemies alike - I think that's too open to exploitation. For instance, you can lead the enemy AI units into a tight space, lock the door behind them, and then slaughter them with spells or traps like fish in a barrel. That's no fun.

If you want enemies to pass through a tile you'll just have to not place a door there.
 

Co0kieL0rd

Bafu
WFTO Backer
Jan 29, 2012
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#11
You shouldn't be allowed to set doors as open to allies and enemies alike - I think that's too open to exploitation. For instance, you can lead the enemy AI units into a tight space, lock the door behind them, and then slaughter them with spells or traps like fish in a barrel. That's no fun.

If you want enemies to pass through a tile you'll just have to not place a door there.
Oh yes, it IS definitely fun! >D

It doesn't matter whether AI units get caught between two doors or they would have the backdoor open, because they won't run away, anyway. But if they wanted to get out, they just need to destroy the door that's blocking their way.

The devs want to constrain exploitative strategies so I highly doubt you as Underlord will be able to slaughter hordes of enemies with spells and traps alone. The core of the battle system of WftO will probably be armies.

That said, I adhere to my point that door should have "all open" mode for strategic purposes.
 

Insignium

Priestess
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Dec 22, 2012
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#12
You shouldn't be allowed to set doors as open to allies and enemies alike - I think that's too open to exploitation. For instance, you can lead the enemy AI units into a tight space, lock the door behind them, and then slaughter them with spells or traps like fish in a barrel. That's no fun.

If you want enemies to pass through a tile you'll just have to not place a door there.
That's another point that would be a nonissue if only the weak door would allow you to do this.
 
Jan 7, 2012
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#13
I would like to see a submenu but species blocking doors would make it way too easy to seperate units which hate each other, maybe imp doors or high cost magic doors which act like dna scanners for 1 creature type.
@Jackpotwinner
a oneway door/portcully wouldnt be able to let this happen when placed in no mans land, rapid spellcasting with ligthning bolts was easy in dk even without having the enemy trapped. I think the devs will balance the spells better, so you wont be able to kill off high level units at a small cost.
Traps are another issue as you sayed, but just sloth players will be able to use them all and its after all a very expensive way to kill, what is when a lowly gnarling stumbles through your one way door beeing killed by the expensive gastrap you now have to set again, while the shutted door is destroyed by a powerful enemy?
I think most raiding partys will use a weak vanguard like the dwarfs were used in dk.
I dont see much blancing issues for portcullys/one way doors, when they are balanced in price and toughness.
 

thefinn

Templar
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Dec 30, 2012
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#14
I have to agree, in almost all games it's these little details that totally either make or break it.

Has anyone played any of the later Total Annihilation games? You cannot any longer set your Air Superiority fighter to attack ground targets or "both". It's Air only. Ridiculous! I call shenanigans. They had it in TA the first one, but later it was removed and why ? balance I doubt it. Just lazy.

Get all the details right ! Doors should have menu's creatures should have menu's make as much detail to the gameplay as you can!

Game development isn't just about graphics and animations for many of us!

ESPECIALLY this game, people that play and love this game will not be the same people that only enjoy halo or quake. They'll be the RPGers and thinkers amongst us - many exceptions will also exist I'm sure.

The more detailed gameplay and replayability, the better a game it will be.
 

Vargas

Priestess
Dec 14, 2012
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#15
True. RPG-games are by nature designed as to be about most efficient management and most innovative use of the mechanics provided to you; also to exploit the system it seems. But they should, for this game at least, provide us with simple drop down menus to keep it clean and simple. If they wish to provide a level of depth equal to games like Geopolitical simulator they should of instead aimed to create such a game. Now they should provide more slimmer and intuitive alternatives to managements to keep the tedious work at a necessary minimum.
 

XeCaraeos

Cultist
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Jan 17, 2013
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#16
I personally used wooden doors in DK2 just to reduce noise from workshop and torture chamber, and to provide some peace and quiet in the library and lair, I'd like to see the intelligent doors as something else, maybe brought into the campaign shortly after you can get units that hate each other, and a little bit more expensive than the normal door, but not much
 

farn

Templar
Dec 25, 2012
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#17
Evil Genius had this feature, basically it allowed you to set every single door to a specific level of security or set them all at once with a hotkey.
F.ex.
Level 1 - Would be the basic workers
Level 2 - Would be the military minions
Level 3 - Would be only the henchmen and the evil genius
Level 4 - and as the last one, only the evil genius can go through the door.
That's not what it was. Level 1 would let anyone pass, including enemies and tourists, level 2 is just your minions, level 3 is just your Evil Genius, and level 4 is the same as Level 3, except guards are posted.
 
Jun 27, 2012
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#18
How about simply having a unique door that has a small hatch in it for imps? That way when its locked, imps still walk through it.

A powerfull door or gateway could also be available, that doesnt allow common imps to pass through. Since danger is the only thing you want your imps to stay away from, it makes sense that this door gives good protection. It could kill enemy imps when they attack the door.
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#19
Since any Door normally blocks way to all your enemies I think the only door that should have a ''selected'' lock should be a Magic Door, aka Door with an Eye. It would make sense as other doors, like Wooden or Reinforced Doors can't have any form of intelligence, thus granting them ability to filter wich troops can go through is illogical.
 

Lord of Riva

The Lord
WFTO Founder
Dec 29, 2012
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#20
, thus granting them ability to filter wich troops can go through is illogical.
a game where you manage a dungeon with creatures,Traps and Spells as an Underlord is illogical as well ...
magic is the reason.
lets look on the gameplay mechanics and for what reason you use Doors:

1. Defense ---> you need hard doors like steel or magic doors to gain a little time at least
2. managing your dungeon ----> Wooden doors (cheapest with absolutely no Defense value)

If we say only magic doors can be intelligent doors it wont help a bit: They are expensive, the money you spend on this is missing in your defense. whereas if wooden doors can do it , they can be used easily manage your dungeon (which is kinda the idea behind the suggestion right? )

this shouldnt be a matter of Logic but of gameplay and thus im absolutely in favor in controlling every door you have (except maybe the posibility to let enemies through since this can lead to separating enemy forces with micro managment which would lead to offense being a bad decision)
 
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