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Monsters embedded in ice; Floors; Timed game; Going outside; Rooms on bridges.

What do you think?


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Jax0K

Cultist
WFTO Backer
Jan 10, 2013
20
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#1
Just some things that would be nice.:D

When you get near water or in a cold area there could be monsters embedded in ice. They could be immobile until the imps dig it/him/her out of the ice (like digging dirt). It would be nice if you could see trough the ice to know what you are getting.

This is probably a highly unlikely thing to happen but it would be interesting to be able to build the dungeon up and down as well. With ladders -> stairs -> lifts. It would be hard to create a flooring system that would work (but what do I know).

There could be a timed game where you have to run away from water or lava (lava can destroy walls and dirt, water only dirt (in a longer time period)) that is coming in from one edge of the dungeon. It can be stopped with a magic spell that tames the lava/water giving you a creature that could be used to fight the enemy. Or the flow of the lava/water could be directed towards your enemy by digging a path to their base and letting the lava/water flow to them and blocking the way to your base with either strong doors or pits.

There could be cave exits and entrances where the enemy could come from (day and night) but you can only go there during the night and kill them to make it harder to kill the enemy (maybe let the imps go there freely). There could also be a way to be able to go around the valley (where they are) and attack them from behind by digging a path to the other side through the mountains.

Building rooms on the bridges would be nice (maybe make them weaker to rooms built on solid ground or easier to take over).

I might come up with more things. :D

PS.: I haven´t read any threads so some stuff might already be here.
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#2
Possible.

It would take slightly more effort for player to get a neutral creature, not just wait until scout comes near it.

Creatures could be trapped in Ice, Ember, Stone or even Chained.
 

James Hale

Templar
WFTO Backer
Jan 12, 2013
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Purgatory
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#3
A chained up creature in a neutral area is a fantastic idea. Perhaps you'd need a particular weapon or skill acquired in the Foundry to unchain them - and of course whoever unchained them would be their new master. :D
 

toffeejay

Dryad
WFTO Founder
Dec 25, 2011
224
206
385
35
#4
The first point is great - having to mine through Ice to get neutral creatures would be cool. Slichizard's and James Hales ideas of having them chained would good as well.
 

Fireeye

Augre
WFTO Backer
Dec 30, 2012
1,155
687
510
Ze Germany
#5
I definitely like the idea of the frozen monsters - it would things far more interesting than it was back in DK2/1, where you only had to get your scouts to the neutral monsters. You could also add neutral hostile monsters á la Warcraft 3, which would put up a serious fight but drop considerable amounts of gold or possibly one-time spells when defeated.

The floors would be interesting for the Sandbox mode, but would make things unnecessary complicated in the RTS combat. Plus it would probably take some effort to implement a functioning multi-floor system to the game.

The timed game would make for a very interesting scenario in the Single Player Campaign. Starcraft 2 had a very similar mission called "Supernova", where a firestorm would begin at the left side of the map and eat its way to the right, all while you had to push to a Protoss base located at the far right side of the map. The problem with WftO would be that you can not easily relocate your entire base like the Terrans in SC2 can, so it eventually would be just a regular timer mission.

I don't particularly like the idea of fighting on the surface. The relatively cramped combat in tunnels and small chambers is one of the main feature of the DK series, whereas the overworld would probably contain vast open spaces. You would also have to either implement a multi-floor system or make the Overworld a different level alltogether, I suppose.

Building rooms on bridges could work to some extent. However, as water or lava fields are frequently placed deliberately to limit the building space given to the player and thus force him to do some fine tuning in how large he wants to have which rooms, I would suggest that only non-critical rooms (say, barracks and guardposts) should be allowed to be placed on bridges.
 

Cultist Joris

Huntress
WFTO Founder
Dec 30, 2012
1,555
840
570
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Belgium
#6
A few comments... :)

The idea of locked up monsters as neutral creatures is nice! :D
As for the multiple floors it would really be fun if it was in the game, and it is maybe not impossible. Other games like A Game Of Dwarves showed that it is not detrimental for the gamplay and tactics. (but I'm not an expert in these things)
About the overworld: the devs already mentioned that it (probably) wouldn't be in the game... :confused:

At last for the rooms-on-bridges idea: I totally agree with you @Fireeye! I couldn't have said it better myself! ;)

However, as water or lava fields are frequently placed deliberately to limit the building space given to the player and thus force him to do some fine tuning in how large he wants to have which rooms...
 

Eek

Matriarch
WFTO Founder
Oct 22, 2012
370
209
420
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Canterbury, Kent
www.leeketh.com
#7
The original plan was to have different floors, but they couldn't get it to work nicely, and scrapped the idea I'm afraid.

As for "Going Outside" - they had much discussion on how to involve the "overworld", with numerous ways of incorporating the outside world, but none of them really worked with the dungeon keeper theme. I believe that they currently intend to let you zoom out and see the world faded out above your dungeon, as a way to include it?

I really want rooms on bridges too. I am very turtle-y when I play any games like this, and I don't consider myself to have "finished" a level until I've got every creature to lvl 10, and covered up every last square of water/lava. I'd love it if there was actually a point to doing that. :D
 

James Hale

Templar
WFTO Backer
Jan 12, 2013
171
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Purgatory
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#8
I can certainly envisage how fighting in the Overworld could be done, but obviously I'm not suggesting that it's the same as meaning it could actually be coded effectively. I'm pretty confident the idea is sound; you just need to think outside the box a little, and the game is called War for the Overworld remember.
 

Jax0K

Cultist
WFTO Backer
Jan 10, 2013
20
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#9
I got to thinking that if it is not possible to create different floors then maybe create a chamber to where you can collect your gold. It could be connected to your dungeon hart and it can be made bigger by sending imps there and digging out the walls and dirt.
 
Jan 7, 2012
446
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#10
Maybe ravines which reach down on your dungeon ground, so there are very thin and long areas with some kind of vegetation and dimmed daylight which could hinder creatures or even kill them instantly. (vampires?)


chained, caged or freezed neutrals would be a good way to increase the difficulcy.
Like: here are some neutrals imprisoned in a hero fortress but it isnt enough to run through it with an imp to get them, you could have to bring them a creature like the augre which is able to construct things and destroy cages/chains.
Infiltration maps and skirmishes could make a lot more fun when there would be new priorities like, who is able to attract the first fire creature to free those neutrals in the middle of the map or similar tasks.

Timed campaigns exist in dk2 were you had to kill certain enemys or win the game before they could overrun you or escape, I hope we will see scenarios like these in wfto again.

Im on the side of fireeye with the bridge rooms, simple traps and guard posts.
But I think even barracks are too complex, all those mechanic stuff could bareley work on a bridge, the wack dwarfes wouldnt have enough place to go down. Also thats a veryuseful room which shouldnt be placed on restricted areas so easily.

What do you think about diving under bridges? flying creatures in dk were able to fly up and down, why shouldnt swimming creatures be able to choose between diving under a bridge or stepping on it, depending on how low you swim in possesion mode.
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#11
[EMAIL said:
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What do you think about diving under bridges? flying creatures in dk were able to fly up and down, why shouldnt swimming creatures be able to choose between diving under a bridge or stepping on it, depending on how low you swim in possesion mode.
Bridges mostly are supposed to connect areas, I doubt they should be used in any other way. Also don't think getting below bridge is ok, unless bridge will be higher, but then I'm not sure how will it look.
 

Nepene

Templar
WFTO Backer
Jan 7, 2013
74
29
225
#12
The original plan was to have different floors, but they couldn't get it to work nicely, and scrapped the idea I'm afraid.

As for "Going Outside" - they had much discussion on how to involve the "overworld", with numerous ways of incorporating the outside world, but none of them really worked with the dungeon keeper theme. I believe that they currently intend to let you zoom out and see the world faded out above your dungeon, as a way to include it?

I really want rooms on bridges too. I am very turtle-y when I play any games like this, and I don't consider myself to have "finished" a level until I've got every creature to lvl 10, and covered up every last square of water/lava. I'd love it if there was actually a point to doing that. :D
I'd enjoy being able to build on bridges too. I liked covering the land with my dungeon.

It was great fun facing the final boss with an utterly overwhelming force that would kill him and his group in seconds. Knowing that you had complete dominance over your domain.
 

ShadowTiger

Crackpot
WFTO Founder
Dec 10, 2011
223
101
350
New York
#13
I'm sure Dungeoneer will grant us the ability to set repeating "Events" that would be able to target the full range of Y coordinates with an increasing set of X coordinates to trigger that sort of Starcraft 2 'esque Supernova mission. (That mission was intense. Oh boy.) It wouldn't be thaaaat hard to simulate, if it's as powerful as we might be led to believe. ... ... or at least as what I'm seeing in my mind. :p A powerful editor is a dream come true.

I actually find the idea of a ravine with daylight shining through to be a fantastic idea, as it will add a lot to gameplay. Even if we can't actually really "go outside" due to engine limitations, it would still incorporate the Overworld to some degree. During the campaign, more and more areas would have sunlight to contend with, though it wouldn't do that much. Ravines, more likely, I should say. Underground rivers and whatnot. Less lava to build traps around.

I think the creatures trapped in ice, however, is probably the best idea of the bunch. I've never really understood why a random arbitrary neutral creature would be wandering around in the middle of some cavern with no way to escape and just join your crew with full loyalty the moment any one of your creatures intercepted it. Didn't make as much sense as it could. Now freeing a creature from chains or ice, on the other hand, would be very useful. Saving its life, and all. But that would also mean we'd need ice. :p
 

Ben Chandler

Impassibly Cool
WFTO Backer
Jan 23, 2013
311
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310
#14
creatures trapped in ice etc.. great!,,, would look good too... extend it to corpses trapped in ice, that have been there WAY too long. plus the idea perhaps of having different types of 'dirt' i.e. ice blocks to dig through... erm (i can't think of any more... but you get my drift?)
 
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