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[Neutral Room] Nest

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Peetfighter

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#1
Highlight: A single tile room that cannot be build or claimed and spawns neutral creatures at a slow rate, can be destroyed.
Vein: None
Associated Units: Neutral units like Bloodlings:

Wow this picture is bigger then I expected. :s
Appearance: A hole in the ground with some rubble around it
Function: Spawns a neutral creature every 30 seconds until the maximum number is reached, 10 perhaps? Also heals nearby neutrals.
Props: See appearance.
 
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Amon

Huntress
Apr 14, 2012
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#2
Function: Spawns a neutral creature every 30 seconds until the maximum number is reached, 10 perhaps? Also heals nearby neutrals.
When you say 'maximum', do you mean that the moment a Neutral is Kaptured, Killed or Konverted, it will begin the countdown timer to replace the neutral, or will the countdown timer tick away regardless, and just stop at 0:01 until it is needed to tick over to 000?
 

Peetfighter

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#3
When you say 'maximum', do you mean that the moment a Neutral is Kaptured, Killed or Konverted, it will begin the countdown timer to replace the neutral, or will the countdown timer tick away regardless, and just stop at 0:01 until it is needed to tick over to 000?
Eeeeh the first option, does it really matter?
 
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Lord of Riva

The Lord
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#7
yeah its good, still one problem with that:

If you Convert the creatures the cap should lower itself otherwise you can get unlimited beasts from it.
on the other hand if you do that the creature spawn in itself will get weaker and if it is used, for example, to make a chokepoint its defensive value will get completely diminished over time

adding
 
Likes: Amon
Jan 3, 2013
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#8
yeah its good, still one problem with that:

If you Convert the creatures the cap should lower itself otherwise you can get unlimited beasts from it.
on the other hand if you do that the creature spawn in itself will get weaker and if it is used, for example, to make a chokepoint its defensive value will get completely diminished over time

adding
The best would be make these creatures unconvertible, aka ''death instead of k.o''. That way it will work as a cockroach nest that can keep spawning these little guys over and over every X minutes unless entire previous pack is dead or too far from the nest.
 
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Kormai

Priestess
Jul 29, 2013
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#9
How about another approach, every creature you convert might have a chance to release himself over time (going back to the originall owner)
 

Kormai

Priestess
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#10
also the more you control the more chance multiple at the same time will desert/betray you, you tortured to get em and when more of them are togheter they might feel stronger and try to break free
 

Kormai

Priestess
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#12
I don't want that to happen to my minions.
Look at it this way, if you control have tortured 1 or 2 to follow you its not that bad, but when you only have 15 creatures and you tortured 15 to join you they might think they have a chance and try to break free (they arent exactly mind controlled, they are forced to join by torture)
 

Peetfighter

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#13
Look at it this way, if you control have tortured 1 or 2 to follow you its not that bad, but when you only have 15 creatures and you tortured 15 to join you they might think they have a chance and try to break free (they arent exactly mind controlled, they are forced to join by torture)
If they would break free I would just simply capture them again and torture them again, if they don't like to get tortured then they should stay. I agree with what Lordofriva said.
 

Mozared

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Feb 17, 2013
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#14
Not to whack your idea or anything Peet, but this is the kind of suggestion that makes me wonder: "what would we gain by adding this room over simply using a neutral 4X4 Beast Den?". That's not to say the idea is useless, but there's a lot of suggestions out there that can simply be handled by existing mechanics instead. Try and think from a dev's point of view about it.

Edit: Perhaps I should clarify to sound less harsh. An idea like this is still useful because it inspires us to think about 'housing' for neutral units in general. Something could be done with that. It provides an idea. The thing is, as I've mentioned before, literal ideas are extremely unlikely to make it into the game unless they're thought out in great detail - if you want to provide a more detailed and hands on suggestion rather than an idea, you'll need to think about things like the above mentioned.
 
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Peetfighter

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#15
Not to whack your idea or anything Peet, but this is the kind of suggestion that makes me wonder: "what would we gain by adding this room over simply using a neutral 4X4 Beast Den?". That's not to say the idea is useless, but there's a lot of suggestions out there that can simply be handled by existing mechanics instead. Try and think from a dev's point of view about it.

Edit: Perhaps I should clarify to sound less harsh. An idea like this is still useful because it inspires us to think about 'housing' for neutral units in general. Something could be done with that. It provides an idea. The thing is, as I've mentioned before, literal ideas are extremely unlikely to make it into the game unless they're thought out in great detail - if you want to provide a more detailed and hands on suggestion rather than an idea, you'll need to think about things like the above mentioned.
What can I say to this? I gave all details I could, what's more to tell? It's pretty disappointing if a well thought idea gets a reply like this. If I keep doing something wrong I might as well stop posting suggestions.
 
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Mozared

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#16
What can I say to this? I gave all details I could, what's more to tell? It's pretty disappointing if a well thought idea gets a reply like this. If I keep doing something wrong I might as well stop posting suggestions.
You're not doing anything wrong Peet, and the suggestion helps us regardless. Don't feel discouraged. I'm trying to give people some insight into the dev's position so they have a better handle to think about their suggestions. I'm simply using your suggestion to give an example of the follow-up questions us devs ask ourselves when we see these.
 
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Lord of Riva

The Lord
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#17
i think its good that you shared your opinions with us Mozared through direct designer feedback people can build better suggestions.

for me the nest in general is a pretty interesting idea:

a neutral beast pen can be captured and fulfill a purpose for the Underlord.
A nest on the other hand may be a Hazard, a Barrier where a map designer could create chokepoints or challenges before the underlord can enter certain areas. if they are indestructible (and maybe the creatures that spawn in the nest cant be converted) the take over of a shrine for example may be hindered so that in a match the player has to decide if it is worth to get a bonus for constant enemy fire etc. It could produce some very interesting Map possibilities

further more since we have a "survival Mode" Flex goal, the Nest could be used to spawn waves over waves of enemies without the fear that it can be captured. (other than the Beast pen)

I can imagine a Mission where you have to get control over a certain Map where you get constantly harassed by neutral critters while you try to keep your offense up.


while i understand your Point Moz a Neutral Beast Pen has its flaws if you look into these situations and a "Nest" may solve these.


sorry for my shitty writing as always, im tired :p
and peet dont get discouraged ! :D
 

Peetfighter

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Jan 23, 2013
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#18
i think its good that you shared your opinions with us Mozared through direct designer feedback people can build better suggestions.

for me the nest in general is a pretty interesting idea:

a neutral beast pen can be captured and fulfill a purpose for the Underlord.
A nest on the other hand may be a Hazard, a Barrier where a map designer could create chokepoints or challenges before the underlord can enter certain areas. if they are indestructible (and maybe the creatures that spawn in the nest cant be converted) the take over of a shrine for example may be hindered so that in a match the player has to decide if it is worth to get a bonus for constant enemy fire etc. It could produce some very interesting Map possibilities

further more since we have a "survival Mode" Flex goal, the Nest could be used to spawn waves over waves of enemies without the fear that it can be captured. (other than the Beast pen)

I can imagine a Mission where you have to get control over a certain Map where you get constantly harassed by neutral critters while you try to keep your offense up.


while i understand your Point Moz a Neutral Beast Pen has its flaws if you look into these situations and a "Nest" may solve these.


sorry for my shitty writing as always, im tired :p
and peet dont get discouraged ! :D
Thank you very much, you cleared up everything for Mozared as he wanted to see for me. :)
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#19
How about another approach, every creature you convert might have a chance to release himself over time (going back to the originall owner)
Nope, that would mean converted creature is not reliable to keep in dungeon. If it is unit of Empire, then you may get a ravaging imperial guy who will be killing your own creatures in rather unpleasant way.
 

Kormai

Priestess
Jul 29, 2013
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#20
T
Nope, that would mean converted creature is not reliable to keep in dungeon. If it is unit of Empire, then you may get a ravaging imperial guy who will be killing your own creatures in rather unpleasant way.
True it wouldnt be reliable, but than again you arent mind controlling them. You are keeping them obedient because they dont want to suffer anymore.
So if you have 30 good guys under control because they dont want to suffer and only 15 to keep em in check your telling me they wouldnt try to revolt?
 
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