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New room: Map room.

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Jun 27, 2012
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#1
Name: Map room.

Purpose:
The map room is used to deploy scouts. Here you can also find out all the information you have about your enemies. That kind of info should be discovered first. To know how many creatures the enemy keeper has, they need to be seen first before the info appears here.
Not only does it tell you how many creatures they have, but also which creatures.

And aside from creatures, it also tells you information about the amount of land they have, what kind of rooms and how many gold. The information would need to be updated of course, it may not be up to date if you dont keep exploring.

Naturally some creatures will scout on their own, but using this room you can deploy any creature to scout.

The amount of information that can be stored depends on the size of the map room(s)


Appearance:
A room filled with wooden tables with all kinds of maps on them, maps on the wall too, some bookcases against the walls, chests placed against the walls too.

First there are no maps, but as information is gathered, maps appear. You only need to mouse over the map room for a while to view the entire information panel.

When you capture an enemy map room, all their dungeon information is revealed to you, same for the enemy.
 

anonymus

Bloodling
Feb 1, 2013
23
13
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#2
This is actually an interesting concept, you will need to rework how fog of wars work but if it's done right this can be a great mechanics
 

ShadowTiger

Skarg
WFTO Founder
Dec 10, 2011
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#3
Sounds like a room which will always be kept close to the Dungeon Heart by default strategy. It has very little worth being far from the Dungeon Heart (Being not only the main vulnerability of you as a player, but the likely center of the Dungeon.) aside from shortening the distance a minion must travel to report information. To have your own Dungeon Map Room be captured would be pretty much a greatly undesirable thing. :p

It wouldn't continually update in real time, though, of course. Because if they captured a captured map room back, it's not like your own explorations would be instantly revealed to them as well, of course.

That would be an awkward thing to keep track of: Which areas have been explored by what and on what physical actual map in that map room.
 

Kelphy

Warden
WFTO Backer
Jan 13, 2013
74
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#4
A lot of things I've been seeing are game breakers or taking away that feeling what makes the game special. I must admit though, you have definitely got my approval of this! This is EXACTLY the type of stuff people need to be suggesting! It's genius, it's simple and it would have a major role on the outcome of the entire battle. Who will win, the keeper with the most information or the stronger army, it's something you can juggle to decide how you want to play!

Yes, absolutely brilliant! I hope this gets recognised!
 

AvatarIII

Huntress
WFTO Founder
Apr 20, 2012
1,713
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Worthing, West Sussex
#6
I like it, perhaps there could be some sort of thing (table or cauldron) in the middle that is basically your minimap (an enchanted map or in the surface of the cauldron), and I agree with toffeejay, it would be cool if you didn't even have access to a UI minimap until you have this room.

the new Occuli could be attracted by and work in this room
 

ShadowTiger

Skarg
WFTO Founder
Dec 10, 2011
223
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New York
#7
I kind of feel like if it replaced the UI Minimap, it would change the game too much, sort of like that concept of Upkeep in Warcraft 3 that people didn't like.

The Fog of War accomplishes this nicely. When nothing we own is in the area, the only thing we'd see there is the last thing we saw there, frozen in time.
 
Jun 27, 2012
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#9
Its an interesting idea to link the minimap use to this room yes, The minimap shouldnt be in the room, but building the room could activate the map, kind of like how the map gets activated in command and conquer by building a satelite dish.

Might work easier too if the gathered info can be read from the hud around the minimap as well.

Information gathered could be stored on physical maps in the rooms, when building a map room it could contain the info about your own dungeon. So if you capture a map room, it would only reveal all information to you thats stored inside that map room.

In a way those maps would work the same as researched spells or traps. It would be there as objects, and can be moved.
Maybe scouts could bring back a map to the room after their explorations, at which point the minimap gets updated. Their movements could lift the fog of war, but not from the minimap.

So if they dont bring back the info, you'd have to rely on mousing over the level to see whats going on since your minimap wouldnt show it.
 
Likes: Amon

Ben Chandler

Impassibly Cool
WFTO Backer
Jan 23, 2013
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#10
I really like!

Does seem a bit civilised though... Needs a bit of imagination (like the cauldron thing mentioned) to make it gnarly bloody and generally more underground
 
Likes: Amon

Sacred

Templar
WFTO Founder
Dec 17, 2012
162
61
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Durham, UK
#12
I like the idea of scouts starting in this room before heading out to adventure hopefully bringing back maps showing vital information and statistis about our enemies. Hopefully they will be able to develop this further!
 
Likes: Amon

ShadowTiger

Skarg
WFTO Founder
Dec 10, 2011
223
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375
New York
#13
If the idea is developed, I'm sure there would be people who would prefer to have an option as to which map style it would be in Skirmish games, between DK1's, DK2's, and WftO's default map. It's a pretty big change for some people. It's a different game, obviously, but this just feels like the sort of thing that would make a really big difference on play style and preference.
 
Likes: Amon
Jan 3, 2013
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#14
What you say are :

Guard Room, both in DK1 and DK2. I button in DK2 where all information, obtained by torturing enemy creature is displayed, including the number of creatures opponent has, amount of land he owned and some other minor details.

I'd say instead of making this room better change the Guard room into some sort of Scout Room and do the same as it was in DK2.
 
Likes: Amon

ShadowTiger

Skarg
WFTO Founder
Dec 10, 2011
223
101
375
New York
#16
Wow. That would put the Guard Room right on the fringe end of your territory, wouldn't it? It wouldn't make a lick of sense to put a Guard Room (With all of your very very precious maps and information) near your dungeon heart to protect the maps, right? A Guard Room, with all of those potential vital maps that must never reach enemy eyes, is to be put on the fringes of your territory to act as a Guard Room to guard your territory. That's not the best place for something.

At the very least, let's be able to manually pick up the maps and move them into the Archives with a message that a new map has been made.

The mindset that we must protect a vital map (And we should.) is just one more burden on the player during gameplay.
 
Likes: Amon

Ben Chandler

Impassibly Cool
WFTO Backer
Jan 23, 2013
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#17
Wow. That would put the Guard Room right on the fringe end of your territory, wouldn't it? It wouldn't make a lick of sense to put a Guard Room (With all of your very very precious maps and information) near your dungeon heart to protect the maps, right? A Guard Room, with all of those potential vital maps that must never reach enemy eyes, is to be put on the fringes of your territory to act as a Guard Room to guard your territory. That's not the best place for something.

At the very least, let's be able to manually pick up the maps and move them into the Archives with a message that a new map has been made.

The mindset that we must protect a vital map (And we should.) is just one more burden on the player during gameplay.

I think this is a good point... ok, how about a central guard room/map room with secondary guard posts built strategically round the dungeon?

I think I've also seen a post but can't find it now about some kind of Beacon System, which could also be incorporated?

Can't find the thread for this beacon post, so if anyone knows what I'm talking about,, link it up, because I think it would incorporate well
 
Jun 27, 2012
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#18
Best to have guard and map room as seperate rooms. A guard room is to guard a region after all. Drop creatures in the guard room and they will guard the place, drop them in the map room and they become a scout that starts exploring the map.

The information needs to be kept safe, and guard rooms are often placed at the far reaches of your dungeon. The rooms serve a different purpose and shouldnt be mixed.

Moving on to answer Sebt's questions:

1. I don't understand an exploration to gather information about enemy - You would drop Your creature to Map Room and it would try to research an information about enemy just discovering it only walking over Map Room without walking to enemy territory? OR You would drop a scout creature in Map Room, than this creature will for example take with him a book (just in imagine) and it would go scouting enemy territory?

-Dropping a creature in the map room assigns them to be a scout, they will start exploring the map, they will leave the map room right away. Animations could be added that show them picking up a scroll or some such before they leave, but it would just be visual.

2. Than would scout have to go back to Map Room to store gathered information like Blood Imp gold to treasure room?

-Yes, the scouts need to return to the map room once in a while to return information. They drop off a map here to show they are bringing in new information, based on their findings physical maps are created in the room.

3. If Scout would be killed gathered by him information would be lost?

-Yes, if they die the information is lost. Scouts dropping scrolls might get too complex, but thats up to the dev team of course if they want to add that or not.
4. If You have a creature still in Map room You could get fresh information about enemy second by second?

-No, the only thing creatures can do in this room is bring back gathered information. It's not a very busy room.

5. Where would Scout have to go to gather information about enemy?

-They simply explore the map as they always do, looking for unexplored territory. At enemy territory they will sneak and use stealth when possible, and wont attack during scouting duty. They are just there to gather information.
Depending on the creature type, they might show initiative and steal enemy gold, maps, spells or even unplaced traps during this infiltration.
Less subtle creatures wouldnt be able to do that and might just get into fights since they cant use stealth, so its best to pick your scouts carefully. This will add more importantce to stealth and scout classes, making them far more usefull than in Dungeon keeper.

To get back at the physical maps, heres what I propose for it:

Player map.
You dont need to explore your own dungeon, once you place your first map room a map of your own dungeon appears in the map room. This map updates itself automaticly as you expand your dungeon as long as its in the map room. You could pick it up and drop it elsewhere, but it wont update if its not in a map room.

Teritory map.
This one represents the minimap regarding territory thats not yours. It gets updated whenever scouts bring back their findings.

Creatures map.
For each faction, theres a seperate map for their minions. If they spot enemies, the information is written down here.
So if you are in a level with three other keepers and two seperate hero factions, it would accumulate to five seperate maps.
Neutral creatures their information is also kept on a seperate map.

If your scout spots two hellhounds and an orc of player 2, this info gets added to the player 2 map. For simplicity's sake I would suggest that creatures that die are removed from the map automaticly, otherwise it could happen that player 2's orcs keep getting killed offscreen and your scouts keep seeing new orcs, which means the list could eventually say player 2 has over a hundred orcs.
This way players cant exploit this either while still leaving room for some strategy here.

I think thats all the maps that are needed, if a good use can be found for additional maps I'd like to hear it. Generally speaking, you wont need a big map room. A 3x3 map room could have one table to put a map on, and a 5x5 room could have four tables to put a map etc. So usually a 5x5 room will be enough to store your own map, the territory map, the enemy creatures map, and the neutral creatures map.
 

Ben Chandler

Impassibly Cool
WFTO Backer
Jan 23, 2013
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#19
Best to have guard and map room as seperate rooms. A guard room is to guard a region after all. Drop creatures in the guard room and they will guard the place, drop them in the map room and they become a scout that starts exploring the map.

The information needs to be kept safe, and guard rooms are often placed at the far reaches of your dungeon. The rooms serve a different purpose and shouldnt be mixed.

I know what you mean, I think you misunderstand. There could be a central map/guard room - perhaps War Room - (where battle tactics are organised, scout missions etc etc i.e. the central map room but with more military focus) and linked off this are guard posts, like dk1 where dropped creatures will stay 'on duty' so to speak, but all linked back to the central room.

Essentially what I'm suggesting is that the game could have a Command Centre (which really is what the Map Room is)

{might be getting to fiddly here, but hey it's a 'suggestion' forum} Maybe add a feature where you could plot patrols of your minions, a little like in battle for middle earth and age of empires, giving instructions from this room, using the map, on where you'd like creatures to patrol/explore/scout and possibly wait for an ambush?
 
Jun 27, 2012
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#20
A nice idea, but that might require a different room or could better be part of the guard room. Its best if too many features are not added to one room since it might get confusing how the room works.
 
Likes: ShadowTiger
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