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Quick Feedback For The Game

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Enker-Zan, Jul 12, 2017.

  1. Enker-Zan
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    Enker-Zan Gnarling

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    So I finally picked this game up recently while it was on sale because I am a hardcore Dungeon Keeper fan/player and waited for the bugs to get ironed out, plus I have overseen the development of this game in it's early days before bridging to Steam etc (some devs may know me). So far everything seems pretty good for the most part, however I do have some things I want to address.

    ISSUES:

    1. The AI is incredibly ANNOYING. No matter which personality or difficulty I seem to pick, the bastard always steals everything on the map as fast as possible and then digs a straight line right into my base as fast as possible. Which results in me fending off a horde of imps and level 1-3 creatures on a constant basis. Every time it does this I always win because I outsmart it with turtle tactics that it forces me into. Sure I may win every time, but it is absolutely irritating as hell to deal with when I just want to build a nice dungeon and slowly move forward sometimes while exploring the maps.

    2. The Vampire is totally useless. The fact that it requires lots of prisoners on a constant basis makes it not worth keeping at all. If you are stupid enough to feed your enemy that many POW's, then you are playing the game wrong, and an enemy summoning this mocks you by summoning it. This issue is also mainly due to my next issue seen down below.

    3. Monsters are too damn needy at the wrongest times. It seems like you ripped the creatures habits straight from Dungeon Keeper 2 and put it into this game, and that is a major problem. One of the main problems with DK2 was that the monsters were so damn needy that I constantly had to babysit them when on a budget or else they throw a fit and leave my dungeon. There were some cases that even though I was an evil Bill Gates, they would still find a reason to get unhappy. Dungeon Keeper 1 had it right when it came to monster management in terms of needs and priorities.

    Monsters instantly leaving their work in progress is also another glaring issue. I've had cultists get up and leave from a ritual instantly because it was suddenly tired, and have had Chunders up and leave before they finish a toolbox for the same reason. The list goes on, all monsters do this and it needs to be fixed. They need to finish their work before they leave for any reason.

    SOLUTIONS/SUGGESTIONS:

    1. The AI needs some serious work, no ifs ands or buts about it. Polish the AI, and please give them descriptive playstyles when highlighting their names. There also needs to be selectable playstyles within the AI to have them fight a certain way while using their preferences. This will completely avoid any annoying confrontations with the enemy as described above. The game needs to be fun, not a pain the @ss.

    2. If I were to change the way the Vampire functions, it would be this; Instead of requiring prisoners to feed on to stay healthy, it should instead need to find an enemy creature to kill (kind of the like the Horned Reaper, which I'm sure is what you had in mind for this guy.) If he successfully kills something (something as in anything, not just humanoids, Imps don't count obviously), then his thirst will be sated. This guy's need to feed needs to be at least quadrupled in duration, if vampires were always that hungry, everything on the planet would have been dead already.

    3. Monster management needs some tweaking, right now it is very irritating to deal with. Slow moving creatures like Augres and Juggernauts are THE WORST. Their slow movement often causes these morons to collect their pay way late, be hungry all the damn time, and be in need of sleep all the time. All of which cause them to complain, ALL. THE. TIME. So if I put down a call to arms flag, I will inevitably hear the complaints made by these twats within seconds. These 2 creatures need to either have their durations doubled or have proper movement speed. Right now it's like comparing them to Great Danes with the bladder size of a Chihuahua, it ain't right.

    This is also an issue with the rest of the creatures in other cases. When a call to arms flag is being put down, the creatures "needs" have got to be put aside til the flag is gone just like in DK1. Every time I have to march them a long distance, within seconds I CONSTANTLY have to hear about their needs not being met, being tired, and them whining about their pay.

    4. Juggernauts and Augres in general are nearly useless to have, even for battle, similar to their cousin the DK2 Bile Demon. They are too slow, do little damage, and even train slow. If they are gonna be THAT SLOW, then they need to deal some better damage.

    5. There needs to be a 2nd call to arms flag implemented for all creature types to attack+move to their destination instead of just running straight to it.

    6. Wisdom Juice potions need an increase in EXP gain, they are just not worth the time and gold to make.

    7. Please implement a hotkey to center the camera view at a 45 degree angle (non-diagonal view), pressing repeatedly would rotate it again at another 45 degree angle.

    8. It would be great if there was option to play as the Empire instead of just the Underlord grabbing Empire portals. This is all you would need to do to make this happen:

    A. Make a new portal graphic for the Empire and the Underlords.
    B. Implement an animation of a monster portal shifting into an Empire portal once it is claimed by an Empire worker. And another animation of the portal changing back into a monster portal if they lose it to an Underlord worker.
    C. Default Empire portals placed on maps will change into the new monster portal should an Empire worker claim it, allowing access to monster units as the Empire.

    BUGS:

    1. The last level in the default campaign always causes the game to freeze when I attack the castle. I have no idea why this happens, and it sure as hell is not a hardware issue as I have a very high performance system.

    2. The music track "Battle Medley" is glitched in a bunch of maps. Maps that use the 2nd half of this music track will endlessly repeat once it starts til the game is over regardless if a fight is going or not. It is super annoying to where I have to turn the music off once it bugs out.

    3. A monster that is about to die in combat complains that it is tired before death.

    4. The pathing on creatures when moving to a call to arms flag is skewed when moving through multiple types of terrain. For example if I set the flag on water nearby while they are standing on land, they will take a long stupid route on land to the flag as if they don't want to get their feet wet. I should be able to plant a flag and have the monsters take the shortest route in a line to their destination, not take the scenic route because they're afraid of getting wet.

    5. The animation of the Vampire being summoned from the Sanctuary is all screwed up.

    With all the other stuff said above, It almost makes me wish there was a room called Boot Camp I can build so when I drop these bastards into it, I can train them to not to be whiny little pansies.

    That's all for now, I'll make a 2nd thread if I find more stuff that needs attention.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
    Biervampir [AUT] likes this.
  2. Nutter
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    Nutter Inquisitor Founder

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    Issues:
    1. The AI is being reworked as part of the 2.0 update. Right now it's still using a (very outdated) early version from release which can't even use half of the tech from the veins of evil.
    2. The Vampire isn't useless, it just needs to be properly trained up and cared for. At level one they are nothing special, but as they level up they reach a power level that is almost on par with the titans. At level ten their lifesteal ability means that can fight against a titan one on one and usually win by outhealing it. If you're relying on prisoners to keep it well fed you're also missing a crucial thing, it can sate it's blood need by fighting (either enemies or in your own arena).
    3. The obey spell is designed for moments like this, it will force them to ignore their needs for the duration.
    4. They are tanks rather than damage dealers, so damage dealing isn't their main concern.
    5. Agreed, would be nice to have both options.
    6. Depends how you're using it, it gives a specific amount of exp, split across all of the units it hits. So if you drop it on a large group it'll give them all a tiny amount. But I do agree that the amount of exp it gives in return for the gold it costs is a little low.
    7. Would be useful I suppose, but it's not a heavily requested feature. You might be best making a separate thread for just this feature request to see if you can drum up some support.
    8. You already can (sort of) play as the Empire, just select a Empire based Dungeon theme and play on a map with empire gateways. In terms of a proper Empire techtree, that's a little out of scope as a game update.. would probably be better suited for a sequel.

    Bugs:
    1. It probably still is a hardware issue, the last campaign level is very processor intensive and even high end systems can have minor issues.
    4. The reason minions chose the land based path is because walking through water is slower, so the AI calculated that the land based path would take less time than going through water would.
     
  3. Enker-Zan
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    Enker-Zan Gnarling

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    Awesome, can't wait!

    No see, that's the problem right there. People that know about this are gonna pick that Vampire off when it tries to find food if you don't have POW's. And it may hit like a truck at a high level, but it requires way too much time and resources to maintain. The many people I have been playing with online have been telling me the same thing when I asked about it, "Don't use the Vampire unless you want to troll newbies. They are too much of a pain to maintain." Unless more people want to share their thoughts and strategic uses to counter my statement, feel free.

    Then this spell is bugged then. I have used this on Cultists trying to walk off and get pay and they completely ignored it. Either way, their petty needs must be put aside when rallied, it is so damn annoying to hear them complain about pay and food during a life or death situation.

    But if they are barely a threat, all they are is a hurdle that can be hopped over in a few seconds. They aren't as tanky as they should be if that's what you were really aiming for. Some sort of compromise should be considered if people are going to use these guys for anything other than Garrison duty.

    That I did not know. You should add that to the potion's description, cus I don't recall it ever saying anything about that. But yeah, as said before, it does need a little buff regardless.

    Damn! I was really hoping for that one... Please make it happen in your next expansion! D:

    You may want to look in this more then. When I tested this to confirm before saying something about it, I only dropped the flag maybe 20 feet away in water and my units wanted to wanted walk a mile through a maze of tunnels rather than the water. The distance they wanted to travel was literally 20x longer.
     
  4. Biervampir [AUT]
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    Biervampir [AUT] Bafu

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    Sadly you will have to wait for some month

    Yea, the traditional way of keeping vamps happy is total garbage and not worth it.
    Thats why you put them in the arena, so that they can train and wont get hungry.

    We have solutions for that issue listen in the QA area, but it needs to be seen by Simburgur first and then assigned.

    That's part of the AI overhaul (hopefully). The Cultist do that to heal other minions and then ignor their task.

    Augres are the best intelligent melee unit you can attract with an Underworld Gateway.
    They have many AOE attacks, Stun and deal quite good dmg. But I totally agree, they are slow assess and due to their job, they get easily unhappy, because they usually have to walk long distances. IMO they should have a normal or high speed for that job.
    Further to the Garrison is so damn expensive and they aren't way better then Chunders, it isn't worth hording them.

    I agree, Wisdome Juce is a bit on the weak side but it should onyl recieve a small buff (like +100-200 XP), we had Wisdome Juce up to 1200 XP and that was OP.
    Usually you chain brew potions to get their full potential, but for that they are quite expensive.

    I won't spoiler you (even thought I almost know nothing about the new DLC), but you most likly wont be able to play as the empire in the next DLC. But you sorta do, in the My Pet Dungeon DLC, just select the Empire or Pheasteus Theme and then you have it, playing as the Empire.

    Yea I also notice that the AI isn't allways taking the shortest path, it seems.
    Water is sometimes slowing them down, that they would need to take some more tiles on the bridge to be faster.
    Haven't seen it what you descripted though
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  5. Enker-Zan
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    Enker-Zan Gnarling

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    I'd like to get a link to that if able.
     
  6. Biervampir [AUT]
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    Biervampir [AUT] Bafu

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    QA Stuff is private, sorry (and I shouldn't show because the community should come up with other ideas, so that the Dev's can choose the best fitting solution.)
    But there's was a discussion on UserEcho about that.

    http://brightrockgames.userecho.com/topics/1414-vampires-arena/
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
  7. Poisonheadcrab
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    Poisonheadcrab Bafu

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    I'm really curious on the behaviors of each A.I. I've been designing a lot of maps in WFTO which require the player to set a specific A.I but I'm still not exactly clear on how each individual A.I behaves. I do know some basics like Rhaskos, Korvek, and Marcus are generally un-aggressive and Stephen being highly aggressive, but other than that not too much.

    My next question is regarding the 2.0 release. Will rival underlords finally be able to use traps and constructs? This will certainly make them more challenging to fight.

    Lastly, can we expect any improvements to the map editor besides being able to use the snow terrain as seen in the Pet dungeon levels?
     
  8. Nutter
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    Nutter Inquisitor Founder

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    If everything goes as planned the Underlord AIs should be able to use all the available tech (but obviously some will only use a certain subset of it... Kasita using mostly Gold related stuff, Rhaskos being more focused on beasts than building defenses, etc).

    I know some new stuff is planned for the map editor than just using snow theme but as nothing has been publicly announced I can't say much else. Scripting is on the wishlist and is something that everyone wants to see but until they actually dive in and see if it's possible nobody wants to make any promises or get anyone's hopes up.
     
  9. Enker-Zan
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    Enker-Zan Gnarling

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    I haven't seen them use traps, but I have been bombed by Underminers from Kasita and Mira. They like to run up with suicide imps and plant Underminers at my walls and set them off. However they won't do this if there isn't any brimstone in the map.
     
  10. Poisonheadcrab
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    Poisonheadcrab Bafu

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    I've played against every A.I; none of them build traps and the only constructs they use are underminers.
     
  11. Biervampir [AUT]
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    Biervampir [AUT] Bafu

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    The AI isn't able to use Defences, potions and also no Constructs expect of the Underminer.
    But they know how to blow up brimstone.

    AI Overhaul comming.
     

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