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[ROOM IDEA] Specialised Lairs, Hangouts & Training

Woudl anyone else like to specialised rooms based on creature type?


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vido.ardes

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Feb 6, 2013
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#1
I am new here, please don't hurt me! I promise I have looked around and as far as I can see no one has suggested it yet, so here it goes...

I have just finished playing DK2 today, and one thing occurred to me (before I even discovered this game exists!) that would be a really cool feature, and it's because I kept getting messages about "x creature is unhappy because it is in the company of creatures it hates". I wanted to separate my types of creature, in lair and in hangouts (such as hatchery) so that if you build a dungeon intelligently, that shouldn't happen. I always thought it odd you just had one big room as a lair. I also felt there were two types of mission, one where the objective is just to setup a camp ready to take down a foe, and one where the idea is to build a new, permanent base or city. This is much more for the latter type of mission.

What I wanted to do it build a library, then build a lair & hatchery off of it that only the wizards used. I don't propose doing this for every character, they could be grouped:
  • Research creatures- Wizards and alchemists get a lair akin to the dorms in a school (for example Hogwarts in Harry potter). You could have a a few dorms off a central hangout where they can eat and relax, and next to a training room designed for ranged magic. The dorms would only take 2 or 3 creatures each, so you would need a few to accommodate everyone.
    • Lair Layout: Restricted to 3x2 rooms, 2 researcher class per room. (example image to follow)
    • Dorm Layout: Minimum 4x4, no max.
  • Fighting creatures - Knights, Orcs and other fighting creatures would have lairs that are more like an Inn, with a tavern for eating and drinking and gambling in, and would also be best placed near a training room with physical targets. This could also be used for rouge like creatures, the stealth explorers would fit in well here. You may experience some in-fighting in the inn when they get too drunk or competitive. The lair would be quite close knit like an army barracks with bunks, but the inn would be a separate room.
    • Lair Layout: Minimum 2x2 room would house 2 creatures. Each 2x1 square is a bunk, so can house 2 creatures and these can be placed end to end, but must have 2x1 gap to the right. (example image to follow)
    • Dorm Layout: Minimum 5x5, no max.
  • Building Creatures- Foundry creatures such as trolls would have a lair that is more akin to a barn, where they sleep on bales of hay and this would be more like DK2's hatchery and double up as somewhere they can just grab raw live chickens off the floor to eat. They are more geared around eat, sleep, work than anything else. they would need more individual space as they tend to be solitary creatures, and would need room for the chickens to grow and breed.
    • Lair & Hangout Layout: Optimum layout would be to combine these, each individual lair would be 1 square, but would need a 1 square gap to the next lair, so separate with a hatchery. Minimum 3x3 would house 4 creatures with eating space. (example image to follow)
  • Feral Creatures- Beast creatures would live in something that is more like a raw cave, and there would be in-fighting among them. The in-fighting would be training in itself so they wouldn't need a separate hangout or training room, but would need a bigger lair as they would each need more individual space.
    • Lair & Hangout Layout: Very similar to building creatures, 1 square with a 1 square gap to next lair. Gap would be empty, as feral creatures find their own food. (example image to follow)
These 4 "classes" of creature would make the creatures seem to have more purpose. The only creature you would normally send into battle would be the fighting class and feral class, the other two wouldn't need to wander out of your dungeon very often. I would also allow you to build your dungeon in 4 quadrants and make management easier. Another plus of this is that you could use it to control what creatures you attract. If you only have dorm space for 3 researchers, you will get no more than 3 arrive until you build more dorms, or if you didn't have a cave built, none of the feral creatures you happened across would join you, and if you converted creatures but couldn't accommodate them or sold off rooms for creatures you already had then they would leave or rebel. I'd hate it in DK2 that I'd get 10 mistresses, or 10 salamanders, and there was no real way of balancing what you get through the portal.

I would like to see two classes of imp too; one that stays in the dungeon, re-enforces walls, picks up knocked out creatures after training or in-fighting, distributes doors around from the foundry and one that is responsible for going out, claiming path, spreading your influence and distributing traps. I would also like to see male and female versions of most creatures, that would further lead to competition between your creatures and something else you would need to keep an eye on! Imagine the inn of an evening when a lady knight walks through, could be trouble...

Maybe for the type of missions where you are just setting up camp ready to attack, you could build one big lair and one big hatchery, it would have a much more temporary feel to it, like an army on the edge of the battlefield... but that is probably for another post ;)

Is this something that would appeal to everyone, or this just a personal fantasy?
 

Lord of Riva

The Lord
WFTO Founder
Dec 29, 2012
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#2
hmm i think it would make everything really complicated like many of the interesting (although we already have to lairs announced. one for beasts and one for intelligent creatures)

since its more of a gameplay issue (you mentioned rooms but its more about the why ) i will wait till i get around to adding the gameplay suggestions to my list ;) (if you think i should at it to the "rooms" pm me ;) )
 

vido.ardes

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Feb 6, 2013
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#3
I would put it under mechanics too.

I think if done correctly it could reduce complexity, but as a compromise, you could do it so that you could have a standard lair and hatchery, but if you wanted to use the specialized ones your creatures would be happier, and less in-fighting. You would be rewarded for doing it, rather than punished for not doing it.

I will update the first post with extra details so it may hopefully become clearer.
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#5
Every creature, including heroes will have their own kind of bed, so I'm sure devs will make sure these are different.
As for size, making it larger than 1x1 will give us DK1 lair, where 3x3 lair didn't always house 9 creatures and you had to expand it, even though visually there were spots for new bed. Can't say much about it since it doesn't matter to me.

As for separate lair for every creature - too many rooms to make. AFAIK there will be a lair for intelligent creatures and beasts. That normally should be enough.
 

vido.ardes

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Feb 6, 2013
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#6
I have created an example dungeon layout. Bear in mind this is a fully researched dungeon, so this is about as big as it gets. The purple are research rooms, the orange are fighting rooms, the blue build rooms, and the pink in the bottom left is a cave for feral with a dungeon in the center. The gold at the back would be a large treasury, the dark purple in the middle a heart, the dark red a worship room of some sort and the grey a guard post. This will accommodate 8 research class, 12 fighters, 12 builders and 14 feral, so quite an army!

All bases covered hopefully.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApcdAynuce0XdEk5emlseEloYUVscnZUeHBEckFYN0E&usp=sharing
 

Fireeye

Augre
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Dec 30, 2012
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#7
I think this would not work with the current idea for the game - a fast paced RTS -, seeing how this is more akin to a simulation game. Now, don't get me wrong - I personally would love to have mage dorms walled with ancient tomes and fireplaces, while Gnarling hide in some sort of murky corner, but having to plan and dig out all of this while simultaneously trying to scout what the enemy does and building up a general build order and strategy from this knowledge could simply be to much Micro- and Macro-Management at once. I would, however, like to see something like this in sandbox mode.
 

Kelphy

Priestess
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Jan 13, 2013
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#8
*hurts you then hugs you*

All jokes asside, I'll say this as nicely as I can without you feeling like 'I am hurting you'. Your idea is okay, but the thing is, it would be too over the place. When you want to see which creatures are slacking off you go straight the the lair, you don't want to be searching all over for which ones are slacking off. Also I like the idea of it sometimes saying "So and so has become unhappy because it is in the presence of creatures it hates." kinda adds personality to your creatures.

It's not a bad idea, but it just seems a little frustrating. However maybe I am wrong, maybe everyone will love your idea and it will be implemented, but for me personally I'd prefer it not to be in the game.

Anyway, welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy yourself here! Also people here are really nice! Don't be scared to voice your opinion! :)
 

vido.ardes

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Feb 6, 2013
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#9
I appreciate it may be a bit too much micro management, and the separation of intelligent / feral creatures would probably be enough to keep me happy. I always thought DK2 looked odd in the lair, hatchery & casino with everyone doing the same thing, sleeping in the same place and eating the same stuff, but as it wasn't really core to the game I suppose it doesn't matter.

I 'spose I always preferred crafting a finely tuned dungeon, rather than exploring and defeating the enemy!
 
Jan 7, 2012
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#10
This could disable the risk of having different breeds of creatures, seperating beasts and intelligents is a good idea, but having so many types of lairs would make dungeon manegment less complicated but longer to understand, which isnt a good thing.
If I want to keep creature A and C away from B and D I have to build several lairs and hatcherys and have to place some doors and corridors in way that these creatures dont see each other often. With specialized lairs its just too easy, to keep them away.

Maybe lairs could be influenced by the type of creatures which stays in them, for example you have a lair which is inhabitated by a great majority of 12 spellcasters, after a little time the lights in the room are replaced with magic lights and some books are lying around.
At this point, the lair gets unattractive for creatures with other interests, A new fighter-unit would search for an alternative lair to rest before taking a place in the lair claimed by bookworms.

So you could have different types of lairs without having too much unnessecary building options or a lost of difficulty, also big and crowded dungeons wouldnt have problems with units going in lairs with their foes, while safe options are avaible-which happened in dk sometimes.
 

vido.ardes

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Feb 6, 2013
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#11
I like the idea of people naturally banding together and the room naturally evolving, it removes the aspect of having too many room types but still incorporates the same ideal
 
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Inlaa

Arcanist
Jan 11, 2012
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#12
I like the idea of people naturally banding together and the room naturally evolving, it removes the aspect of having too many room types but still incorporates the same ideal
This.

I feel that, the larger your lair gets, the more stuff may shift around to naturally fit the creatures' preferences. Builders go here, undead go there, ferals go in the corner away from everyone else because nobody wants to sleep next to the mutts except for gnarlings because the underworld gets pretty darned cold and those mutts are kind'a warm to be near, so...

...Ahem. I'd rather see the room shift around as you get new creatures. If possible, there should be little details belonging to nearby creatures. For instance, if a bunch of cultists gather in a lair, macabre artifacts of evil power will start to decorate the walls around their lairs, and the floor as well. Gnarlings may leave filth on the floor around their beds. Such small details would be nice.
 
Likes: Amon
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