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[Room] [Mechanic] [Hero] [Minion] Entrance to the Overworld

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#1
So about a year ago I came up with a concept for a game with some friends. It was very similar to dungeon keeper and mainly involved evil dragons doing evil dragony stuff, the usual sort. I couldn't really get the game off to a start as I was a lonely cg artist with no one to collaborate with. Woe *sob* *sob*

Anyway I'd like to present, in a very loose fashion, one of the better ideas from that game as I think it could work for WftO. As such, I've tried to adapt it to Wfto and I think it fits in nicely with the theme for WftO.
Its quite a large concept as it involves a new room/tile as well as a possible two new minions and heroes but bare with me ;)

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[Room & Mechanic]

Name: Entrance to the Overworld (assuming that's what we refer to the world above.. not below)
Link to rough appereance/influence

Buildability: Build upon specific/unique tile

Cost: high

Information: These would be small and rare tiles included in more advanced maps. I would imagine you may come across one when tunneling into a large open area. These could be represented as a single tile with a ray of light. When the tile is captured you can build a room (consisting of a single tile) upon it creating an Entrance to the Overworld.

Function: The player can then choose to risk sending minions to the surface. Certain minions will be better at this (perhaps there could be a new minion who specialises at this) and higher level minions will stand a better chance. You won't get to see them on their journey so you'd better cross your fingers and wave goodbye. Your chosen minion can return with information about the map, bags of loot/gold, artifacts, upgrades or incapacitated low level heroes to imprison/torture/kill/burn/slap.etc Then again they might not come back at all...

Despite all these incentives there's a much better and rarer reward. There should be a chance to capture something very precious and dear to those sickening do-gooders up top. A princess or prince. I can't call myself a true evil overlord/keeper until I've stolen away a fair maiden, bwah. The process of capturing these heroes should be quite perilous, so there should be a heavy risk/reward factor to the Entrance of the Overworld. This would stop players constantly sending all their high level minions through it.

Appearance: As the room consists of a single tile it would probably be best represented via props. Props for the 'room' could consist of something along the lines of a teleportation rune/portal, a ladder or ropes. Not forgetting the ray of light from above...

now I'll explain the purpose of the prince and princess.

[Hero]

Name: Prince & Princess
Appearance: Typical Royal garments
Health: low
Armor: low
Movement Speed: moderate
Attack strength: low
Attack speed: moderate
Obtainable By: Entrance to the Overworld (only)

Information: These characters are far too valuable to the heroes to risk sending into dungeons so you'd never find one wandering around a map. They would only be obtainable through the Entrance to the Overworld and be capped at 1 per keeper. Due to this they would be very delicate with low stats.

Function: The player would have several choices with what they'd like to do with their newly captured victim:

  • Use them as bait. The princess/prince would have an aura that attracts heroes. Heroes would no longer see your dungeon heart as the main priority but instead rescuing their royalty. The player could use this to lure heroes into devious ambushes and traps. I'm sure this would work on enemy players too.
  • Sacrifice them to the dark gods. I'm sure the cultists would love this. Perhaps the dark gods would reward you with huge riches or powerful minions?
  • Keep them as a trophy to inspire your minions. Why not?
  • Last but not least. Risk Torture and hope to convert them. Converting them would imbue them with the darkest of powers and result in acquiring the Dark lady or Fallen Prince. This should be challenging as you'll want to keep them alive throughout the torture process despite their low health pool.

[Minion]

Name: Fallen Prince & Dark Lady
Appearance: Dark Lady - ritualistic sweeping dress with occult dagger. Link!
Fallen Prince - Medium plate armour adorned with demonic decals. Dark coloured long sword. Link!
Health: moderate
Armor: Dark Lady - moderate (default magical shielding)
Fallen Prince - high (physical armour)
Movement Speed: moderate
Battle Style:Dark Lady - preferred ranged - magical
Fallen Prince - melee sword
(although both mainly support units with a range of beneficial abilities)
Attack strength: moderate - high
Attack speed: moderate - high
Obtainable By: Converting a Prince or Princess
Jobs: Guards dungeon heart / Inspires minions
Lair: None - Regains health within close proximity to dungeon heart

Information: I see these minions being the closest thing to a physical manifestation of the keeper themselves. They can not be happy, they can not be sad, they only live to do your bidding.

These unique characters could be considered the elite of the minions as they are hard to acquire. Simply owning one would improve the effectiveness of your dungeon and possibly satisfaction of your minions.

Both characters would have identical supportive abilities but I see the Fallen Prince attacking primarily in melee and the Dark lady at range. They would have to be powerful or you wouldn't want to risk using them in combat. There should still be some risk however, perhaps their hp is overshadowed by their other stats.
I haven't decided on any abilities yet but they would be natural leaders and thus mainly a support class, inspiring minions to fight harder.etc

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So if anyone likes/dislikes these ideas, let me know. Maybe we can work out some stats and abilities for the Dark Lady and Fallen Prince. I'm sorry there's so much but it all links on to each other.
I'm very interested in hearing opinions, ideas or just general input. Also thanks for reading all this crazy talk :)
 

Inlaa

Priestess
Jan 11, 2012
426
134
215
27
Texas
#2
I think the only issue I have with this is that it is, in the end, RNG-based if a system like you suggest is employed. If the player has no control over what happens in the world above, and there is just a chance of a good or bad thing happening, then it's basically a roll of the die that determines if your efforts turn up anything of value.

That said, if you look past the RNG factor, it's not a bad idea. I've actually seen something like this shown in an Alpha testing of the game Impire (TotalBiscuit was invited to play and show it). It had the same general concept: Get minions, send them through a doorway to the overworld, fight good guys. The difference was that the imps were controllable when sent to the overworld.

In the end, I don't know where I stand on this. It's something worth considering; that much I can say. I know I don't like the idea of being able to turn some pansy prince or prissy princess into a superhero devil-lord, but their other uses make sense: Bait, sacrifice, all that. Also, small rewards from raiding the overworld wouldn't be bad. It's risk/reward, as you said. Again, the RNG is off-putting, as I remember the developers stating that they want to avoid RNG, but that was a long time ago and things may have changed since then.

I'll try to think about ideas concerning this. I'm not promising any results, though.
 

Gorkan

Blood Imp
Jan 6, 2013
14
18
5
22
#3
I think the only issue I have with this is that it is, in the end, RNG-based if a system like you suggest is employed. If the player has no control over what happens in the world above, and there is just a chance of a good or bad thing happening, then it's basically a roll of the die that determines if your efforts turn up anything of value.

That said, if you look past the RNG factor, it's not a bad idea. I've actually seen something like this shown in an Alpha testing of the game Impire (TotalBiscuit was invited to play and show it). It had the same general concept: Get minions, send them through a doorway to the overworld, fight good guys. The difference was that the imps were controllable when sent to the overworld.

In the end, I don't know where I stand on this. It's something worth considering; that much I can say. I know I don't like the idea of being able to turn some pansy prince or prissy princess into a superhero devil-lord, but their other uses make sense: Bait, sacrifice, all that. Also, small rewards from raiding the overworld wouldn't be bad. It's risk/reward, as you said. Again, the RNG is off-putting, as I remember the developers stating that they want to avoid RNG, but that was a long time ago and things may have changed since then.

I'll try to think about ideas concerning this. I'm not promising any results, though.
Lol War for The overlord will have rival. i like it :)
 

Saint

Blood Imp
Dec 28, 2012
48
12
5
31
#4
Its a good idea. Seeing as we have the "overworld" in the name it makes sense.
Aside the randomness its a decent concept.
The randomness could be removed by a simple mean - low lvl/ tier minions(goblins,zombies) will bring minor spoils(gold) and have a high chance of failure but the failure chance decreases the more of them you send in.
Sending more powerful/high tier minions would increase your chances of both success and better loot.
As the minions you send are "reserved" in your dungeon no new ones can arrive till the quest is over, so its also a factor when you face another underlord in the map.
Maybe also chose the length of the quest what would increase the chances something better if its long and just "raid for gold" if made short.

It could serve as an alternative to gold income in the dungeon. As such maybe you could build it freely without spec tiles. I mean you can ways build stairs and dig up, right? Just stop when you see water drops...

Anyways, good idea pops, jolly well, jolly well, carry on.
 
Likes: Dandoombuggy
Jan 7, 2012
446
171
340
23
#6
Did someone played tropico 2? You were able to raid the sea with pirate ships in a similar manner, It was fun (but risky)
When your troops were sucessful, there was a small chance of capturing aristocrats/wealthy people, they were kept like prisoners but had more freedom to walk through your base. If you were able to keep them long enough you were able to give them free for money.
Maybe the princess could get an option like this. If the increased hero waves arent able to free her ransom money grows over time, so you could free her if you are short on gold.
That whole sacrifice,bait and loot mechanics are a really good idea, but that dark lady should get an explanation.
If you are able to transform a whimpy princess into a badass unit of death, why dont just take an augre and transform him into the blacksmithlordofeternaldarkness? Extra units could get introduced with the possibility of finding new recruts on the overworld instead of gold.
 

Robofish

Necromancer
WFTO Founder
Dec 1, 2012
507
262
415
29
Surrey, laughing at how rubbish Sussex is.
#7
At first I was more or less ready to dismiss this idea as just another hopeful mechanic to fit the overworld into the game. But while this does feature the overworld in a sense, there isn't as such any overworld game play. I for one have always enjoyed random outcomes in any game, on the other hand I you would have to balance everything just right. Also you make it sound as though trying to capture a prince/princess is the most dangerous task, but you also make it sound like you can't chose what your minion goes in search of.

I think it should just be a random outcome, affected by a few things such as creature type, level, and what has already been discovered; for instance you probably should not be able to find a prince/princess more than once or twice. It should also get more dangerous each time you do it, the reason being that if it's worth the gamble once, it's worth the gamble a thousand times so long as you have static odds. This would also make sense as each time there has an incident in the overworld, the empire is likely to up their guard/become more vigilant.
 

Azrael

Bloodling
WFTO Backer
Jan 5, 2013
66
38
75
#8
I think the RNG is fine. It's not completely uncontrolled RNG, after all. If you don't want to lose your minions, don't send them up. A bit like being able to gamble in a casino.
Especially if you can affect your chances by sending more, stronger minions or varying what they are supposed to do.

If it was completely uncontrolled randomly gaining/losing things, that would be a different issue.

@Robofish: Maybe add a time component as well. If you repeatedly raid the world above, they get more vigilant, but if you do nothing for a while, they let down their guard.
 
#9
I'm not entirely sure on the dark lady and fallen prince, to be included with the concept they'd need a lot more work but its good that the entrance to the overworld would still work without them.

As for the Entrance... It is very much gambling. It would be cool to go to the surface and order your minions around but that would involve a whole different mechanic to the main game and add a lot of work.

I thought not being able to see them and having it down to chance added a slightly new mechanic without having to overhaul anything dramatically. Of course there would be different factors that could increase your chance of success but there should always be a risk. It would just add a new element to the game that wouldn't distract too much from the main gameplay.

In many ways I guess it would work slightly similar to the temple in DK1, only random rewards and the chance of getting your creatures back. There should be many outcomes to keep it interesting :)
 

Nechromius

Spirit
WFTO Backer
Feb 22, 2013
6
1
130
#10
I really like/appreciate DANDOOMBUGGY's original idea, and it's very similar to an idea that I have, so I hope he won't mind if I "build" on his idea and support it a little bit...

I agree whole-heartedly that as Evil, Dungeon-Building, Maniacal Overlords, we should always be remembering that we live UNDER the ground, and that there's a whole OVERWORLD going on above us. Furthermore, we should be able to interact -- at least a little -- with the annoying do-gooders up there and tempt to bring them down to our level(s)!!!

Even if ventures of our minions into the Overworld are not played-through, it'd be nice to have options with high risk/reward variables/factors. I hope I don't get into trouble for listing another video-game, but "Shogun: Total War" did a good job with this concept by allowing the player to hire powerful, single-use minions that had single-purpose missions with a (usually small) chance of success for something greater. This, I would like to see in WFTO.

I think that "RAIDS TO THE SURFACE" should be a common thing, with rewards like loot, food, prisoners, treasure, kid-napped nobles for ransom, unusual ingredients, etc.

Most of all -- and here I'm finally building on DANDOOMBUGGY's idea, I would -- as a Dungeon Building Monster -- like to be able to build ADDITIONAL entrances/exits to the land above, which would be a balancing-act payoff: entice more do-gooders to kill/loot/trap, while at the same time opening up the dungeon to more "danger".

WFTO Sketch (2).JPG


In particular, this is my idea for a SURFACE ENTRANCE ROOM. It should be something built very close to the surface and/or very close to a NEWLY CREATED DOOR. A big, fat, easy-to-reach treasure room should be wafting the smell of gold to the OVERWORLD, to entice would-be heroes to stroll on in for a quick shakedown. Once they pass the threshold, however, secret portcullis gates or stone doors could close behind them, and well-stocked (hidden) rooms full of traps and monsters should spring out for a maddening melee to overcome the would-be adventurers before they can make a run back up to the surface with all of our hard-earned treasure!

Perhaps this idea of a SURFACE ENTRANCE ROOM could be developed further to be something modular, where an Evil Overlord of a Dungeon could launch various excursions into the Overworld, in hopes of returning with big/risky pay-offs; and, furthermore, with additional hopes of enticing the very victims from above to venture down into the bowels of the dungeon with a (losing) chance of recovering what has so greedily been taken. :)

I welcome any responses or critiques or questions, and I hope that my post will only add-to / enhance the original poster's idea.
 
Jun 23, 2013
16
4
0
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#11
Like Like Like. Having to venture out and show the do-good villagers torment in order to intice their great protector down into your domain. Great Idea. Besides isn't that what was promised with DK3. Isn't that the game that is being replaced here.
 

monsto

Blood Imp
Jun 24, 2013
8
2
0
54
Parts Unknown
#12
"Create Raiding Party" > List of targets.
Based on the critters that make-up your Raiding Party, you get expanded choices to target. Send out a handful of imps and their only choices are to "ambush the road" and "farm dirt" (or whatever) if you care for any of them to return.

The stronger the critter in your party, the more they could do. In order for "Create Raiding Party" > "Kidnap Princess Bubblegum" to be available at all, you have to have turned at least 1 hero AND he has to be in the raiding party.

That's their target . . . will they make it? They'll either achieve their target goal, die trying, or overachieve a lesser goal. Maybe they didn't make it to Candy Castle, but they did manage to raid the nearby village and return with an amount of spoils that is some multiple of what "normal" minions would have achieved.

This is a whole additional segment of the game. Even tho the player isn't directly controlling the outcome, it's clearly a whole separate and additional system. Even if it's not built out as I describe it, you've got party selection, determining the party's power... If you want to minimize RNG impact, then you have to table-out all potential party member elements to put them up against unseen forces. How are they equipped? How will they do? What do they bring back? How do you balance raid spoils against existing resource systems?

It'd be great to have, but man . . . I see a lot of work there.
 
Likes: Amon
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