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[room] The helpdesk

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Sep 30, 2013
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#1
Highlight: Let me begin with why I suggest this room. When I played DK2 there was always one thing that annoyed the hell out of me, when you were exploring with imps a simple sentry or any other trap completely halted progress. You could drop some random creatures near a trap to destroy it but only a few tiles later and your imps encounter another trap. Since the creatures that destroyed the first trap already walked back to your dungeon you have to repeat the entire process again.

This can be solved with the helpdesk because I envision it as a place where imps can recruit idle creatures to destroy traps for them allowing you to focus on other things while exploration isn't hampered by some random trap every three seconds.

Vein: Sloth, because the idea is kind of born out of laziness.

Associated Units: Any intelligent unit that is idle(nothing left to research or build or can't gain levels by whatever rooms there are).

Appearance: The helpdesk room is inspired by the greatest place of suffering in the modern world, the office. So it's filled with cubicles and desks and off course the walls have slow ticking clocks on a Friday afternoon that seem to say that weekends don't really exists it's just a myth.

Functions:

Can I help you?: Every time your imps encounter a trap(or door) they come to the helpdesk and tag along a creature to go clear the trap and then the creature returns to the dungeon. This means your imps will solve problems like traps or doors on their own without you have to scroll to the other side of the map for every ballista your imps find.

Props

Cubicle: For a 3x3 room a cubicle will appear holding 4 desks at which 4 creatures can sit. The number of cubicles increases the same way book shelves increase as you expand your archive.
 

Fireeye

Augre
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#5
If anything, you might want to call it the "Helldesk".

In any case however, I do not like this idea. Of course it can be annoying that you run from one trap right into the next one and clearing them costs you time that you could use for other forms of micro- or macro-management. Yet you need to keep in mind that other players will have to invest an at least equal amount of time installing this traps in a meaningful pattern. As such, the ability to have your minions automatically gang up on certain traps could only be considered balanced if your enemy also has the ability to automatically place traps in reasonable places - something which I doubt we will see.

As for the single player campaign - I reckon the balance problems would not be much of an issue here, but I think that a regular office cubicle wouldn't really fit into a dungeon filled with torture chambers, beast pits and the like.
 
Sep 30, 2013
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#6
If anything, you might want to call it the "Helldesk".

In any case however, I do not like this idea. Of course it can be annoying that you run from one trap right into the next one and clearing them costs you time that you could use for other forms of micro- or macro-management. Yet you need to keep in mind that other players will have to invest an at least equal amount of time installing this traps in a meaningful pattern. As such, the ability to have your minions automatically gang up on certain traps could only be considered balanced if your enemy also has the ability to automatically place traps in reasonable places - something which I doubt we will see.
I understand your complains,however note that when your imp finds a trap they have to go all the way back to the helpdesk to get a minion every time they see a trap. There are more effective ways to clean traps. I'll also assume that the game will be getting some warning system if you traps are being attacked allowing you to use a lighting spell or dropped creatures to make short work of the intruder. Besides I never saw traps as something that stops an advance completely but hampers it which even with the helpdesk they still do.

Perhaps there will also be an alarm trap which enables automatic response from your creatures.

As for the single player campaign - I reckon the balance problems would not be much of an issue here, but I think that a regular office cubicle wouldn't really fit into a dungeon filled with torture chambers, beast pits and the like.
An office cubicle kills a man's spirit and soul, it is perhaps the most evil room I can think of.
 

Nutter

Frost Weaver
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#7
You have to remember the game's world is in a medieval type age.. where things like office buildings and that kind of work environment doesn't exist yet. So to include one would be very out of character for the theme of the game. That being said, It would be quite cool if it could be incorporated somehow, maybe as a secondary/upgraded feature for the foundry so that imps could fetch a Chunder/Augre to come and deal with the trap (and even gain some bonus EXP for doing so).
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#10
So you do realize that the ''tagged'' creature may end up being killed either by the trap itself or any reinforcements that come to the corresponding trap?

I'd rather manually go and destroy the trap than let a creature go and attack it by the self without me knowing or monitoring it's actions. Or simply increase the range at witch creatures may detect the trap or respond to any threat they or any allied creatures detect.
 
Sep 30, 2013
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#11
You have to remember the game's world is in a medieval type age.. where things like office buildings and that kind of work environment doesn't exist yet. So to include one would be very out of character for the theme of the game. That being said, It would be quite cool if it could be incorporated somehow, maybe as a secondary/upgraded feature for the foundry so that imps could fetch a Chunder/Augre to come and deal with the trap (and even gain some bonus EXP for doing so).
Well to me humor has always been a big part of the games charm. I loved it when your creatures won a jackpot and part of your dungeon turned into the Saturday Night Fever musical, I do understand that lets say a mercenary guild would fit better but I just like something silly like a helpdesk every now and then. However I can understand that to many rooms can only work confusing or frustrating so an "upgraded" foundry might work better.
 

Fireeye

Augre
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#12
I understand your complains,however note that when your imp finds a trap they have to go all the way back to the helpdesk to get a minion every time they see a trap. There are more effective ways to clean traps. I'll also assume that the game will be getting some warning system if you traps are being attacked allowing you to use a lighting spell or dropped creatures to make short work of the intruder. Besides I never saw traps as something that stops an advance completely but hampers it which even with the helpdesk they still do.

Perhaps there will also be an alarm trap which enables automatic response from your creatures.




An office cubicle kills a man's spirit and soul, it is perhaps the most evil room I can think of.
The problem here is not so much that the Help Desk would reduce the time the players need to spend for getting rid off an enemy trap, but rather completely automatizes the process - simply put, the players have to spent nothing of their personal "time ressource" on the job; something which the other player constructing the traps would still have to do.

Furthermore, one may argue that such a room can not be imbalanced since all players can build it. This is partially true, but firstly it nonetheless drastically reduces the defensive potential of traps (particularly of those placed to not let enemy Imps through) and secondly the Help Desk would presumably be situated deep within the Vein of Sloth, which players choosing the vein of Rage or Greed would have no access to, at least for the better part of the game.

And anyway: If you want it done right, do it yourself.
 
Sep 30, 2013
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#13
So you do realize that the ''tagged'' creature may end up being killed either by the trap itself or any reinforcements that come to the corresponding trap?
I do, I never said that : building a helpdesk = traps are no longer a problem.
I will once again assume that you get some kind of warning when your creatures are attacked preventing the helpdesk from unknowingly sending all your minions to their deaths.

I'd rather manually go and destroy the trap than let a creature go and attack it by the self without me knowing or monitoring it's actions. Or simply increase the range at witch creatures may detect the trap or respond to any threat they or any allied creatures detect.
Well you don't have to build the helpdesk off course if that isn't your style. I'm just annoyed by the fact that every single trap no matter how weak or vulnerable will completely halt imp progress and dealing with it is way more time consuming than installing the traps.
 
Sep 30, 2013
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#14
The problem here is not so much that the Help Desk would reduce the time the players need to spend for getting rid off an enemy trap, but rather completely automatizes the process - simply put, the players have to spent nothing of their personal "time ressource" on the job; something which the other player constructing the traps would still have to do.
Once you build a trap you don't have to manually repair or anything like that, while the opposing player does have to manually clear every trap so from that perspective this room only balance things out.

Furthermore, one may argue that such a room can not be imbalanced since all players can build it. This is partially true, but firstly it nonetheless drastically reduces the defensive potential of traps (particularly of those placed to not let enemy Imps through) and secondly the Help Desk would presumably be situated deep within the Vein of Sloth, which players choosing the vein of Rage or Greed would have no access to, at least for the better part of the game.
Then when playing against a sloth player it means that you have to place your traps in a more ingenious way so a random enemy minion can't just destroy it. This provides more of a challenge then just randomly throwing traps around which now is enough so severely hamper enemy progress. That I find truly unbalanced.

And anyway: If you want it done right, do it yourself.
True as I explained in a previous post just mindlessly relying on the helpdesk can bite you in the ass.
 

Nutter

Frost Weaver
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#15
In order to help combat the "It stops players having to deal with traps themselves, it automates it" stuff. One option could be that the player has to actively drop creatures in the room, then when an imp comes and fetches one... he leaves, does his job then carries on with normal activities, so the player has to ensure that the room is always staffed or else the imps have no-one to fetch.
 

Fireeye

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#16
Once you build a trap you don't have to manually repair or anything like that, while the opposing player does have to manually clear every trap so from that perspective this room only balance things out.
Well, you do have to pick a spot for the trap. And decide which trap should go there. This may not sound like much, but I believe it still takes more time than building a 3x3 room and placing some tough minions inside of it.

Then when playing against a sloth player it means that you have to place your traps in a more ingenious way so a random enemy minion can't just destroy it. This provides more of a challenge then just randomly throwing traps around which now is enough so severely hamper enemy progress. That I find truly unbalanced.
Define "ingenious". From what I understood, Imps would see the trap, run back to your base, and take as many other, more powerful minions with them as it takes to tear down said trap. And even so, why should the defending player face more of a challenge than the attacking player? As you've said, randomly placed traps may hamper an attack, but they rarely suffice to be more than a nuissance for a full-fledged assault, so in the long run you will get to attack and possibly defeat your enemy anyway. I do not think that this is imbalanced.


True as I explained in a previous post just mindlessly relying on the helpdesk can bite you in the ass.
Again, from what I understood the only thing that could possibly go wrong is the enemy player noticing you attacking his or her traps, in which case your enemy still has to spend the "time ressource" you didn't have to spend.
 

Reyh!

Crackpot
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#17
Hmm...Helpdesk? The imps could be equipped with mobile phones and when they found a trap they could call the mobs hanging out at the Helpdesk? :p

Joking aside, this sounds to me like the Guard Room from DK2, it did the same thing, just not with traps..
 
Sep 30, 2013
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#18
Well, you do have to pick a spot for the trap. And decide which trap should go there. This may not sound like much, but I believe it still takes more time than building a 3x3 room and placing some tough minions inside of it.

Define "ingenious". From what I understood, Imps would see the trap, run back to your base, and take as many other, more powerful minions with them as it takes to tear down said trap. And even so, why should the defending player face more of a challenge than the attacking player? As you've said, randomly placed traps may hamper an attack, but they rarely suffice to be more than a nuissance for a full-fledged assault, so in the long run you will get to attack and possibly defeat your enemy anyway. I do not think that this is imbalanced.

Again, from what I understood the only thing that could possibly go wrong is the enemy player noticing you attacking his or her traps, in which case your enemy still has to spend the "time ressource" you didn't have to spend.
Hey I'm just going to have a general reply here.

What I mean is that if you truly think about placing traps carefully (like putting barricades around a ballista or whatever combo's will be available with not yet reveled traps) minions send by the helpdesk will be no problem for you. However in DK2 the case was that randomly spamming traps would completely halt any imp advancement and dealing with it was tedious task that requires no skill but constantly drawn your attention like a buzzing mosquito. That's why I want the helpdesk so people can focus on other things and enjoy the game more while also forcing the opposing player to think about trap placement.

Now don't get me wrong you have valid complaints but I would like to see this how this idea works in practice and if it turns out to be overpowered or useless it can always be removed.
 

Reyh!

Crackpot
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#19
"I would like to see this how this idea works in practice"
Well, as i said, the Guard Room from DK2 did the same thing with approaching enemies. The imps noticed a threat, then ran back to the Guard Room to gather anyone at guard, then the creatures rallied to the spot where the imps saw the enemies. I'm sure that could work with traps aswell.. :) But i'd put that function into a guard room instead.
 
Sep 30, 2013
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#20
Well, as i said, the Guard Room from DK2 did the same thing with approaching enemies. The imps noticed a threat, then ran back to the Guard Room to gather anyone at guard, then the creatures rallied to the spot where the imps saw the enemies. I'm sure that could work with traps aswell.. :) But i'd put that function into a guard room instead.
Yeah but the main difference is that a guard room was for approaching threats this room is for imp exploration. Off course having this function in some other room could work as to prevent having too many rooms that need to be build. But still the helpdesk has fundamental difference to the DK2 guard room.
 
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