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Some more stuff:Mine;Portals;Heart protection.

What do you think?


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Jax0K

Cultist
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Jan 10, 2013
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#1
More stuff I have thought of (that might already exist).:D

When you have dug out all the gold in a map that doesn´t have gems (or something else that gives you endless gold). There will appear a small hole into the Impenetrable rock where you can send your imps into (maybe have your researchers find where it would be best to make it (in the library) or get a map from a conquered enemy that will reveal it). Once inside one imp will start to collect gold one second at a time after 10 seconds it becomes 2gold/a second and after 20sec 3gold/a sec. and so on. The more imps you send there the faster it gets (like 0,1 sec faster per imp). But I think, if it gets made, it would be better to have the makers of the game decide how fast the collecting will get.

Portals would be nice on a very big map. Where you could take them over from each end. And have the ability to shut them down once you own both (they can be activated at any time after that). Maybe have your wizards be able to activate it by force and keep it closed when it is being opened by force.

When your heart gets attacked, a bunch of tentacles reach out from the sides of the dungeon heart and swoop around the heart knocking back the enemies and making them lose health in the process (maybe they will lose more health once they hit a wall (if there isn´t a wall they get knocked back farther)). Maybe let this be used every 10 seconds (maybe include mana cost). It could be that you free a tentacle monster that goes to your heart by the end of a mission.

I hope you like these. :D

My previous thoughts:
https://subterraneangames.com/threa...med-game-going-outside-rooms-on-bridges.1726/
 
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Fireeye

Augre
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Dec 30, 2012
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#2
The mine, in my eyes, is problematic because it gives infinite resources to a map that, lacking diamonds or the like, has deliberately been constructed to contain only finite resources, giving the players a chance to turn a game that was supposed to last about 20 to 45 minutes at worst into a matter of hours, which could easily become extremely annoying. So, if the mine were to be included, I would either make it so that there is only one mine in the middle of the map, King of the Hill Stile, or only allow it in Single Player Mode.

While you can always haul to minions around with your hand, the portal has the distinct advantage of not requiring your direct attention, or at least for less time than the classical approach would require. However, I would not include the ability to forcibly shut them down - the advantage of possessing a portal should also include the disadvantage of having to fortify it with traps if you wish to build a forward base right next to it.

I'm not sure about the Heart Defense - it could be useful to block that one wayward rush of the enemy, but you SHOULD have traps around your heart as soon as your workshop is getting started. If anything, the Tentacles should only be strong enough to kill very low-level minions, nothing of the stuff that gets thrown at you in the later game.
 
Likes: Amon
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Greensage

Guest
#3
Good ideas. Some points however, it's rather not bad to have maps without possibilities to get more golds than the imposed stock, because it has more of value and then we must think about ressources management, so more strategic, fun in my opinion.
Portal is a nice idea, but maybe hard to set in the game with many minions, with different speeds, at different points, with different possible ways.
Why not for a spell to knocked back ennemies at the dungeon heart.
 

Eek

Matriarch
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Oct 22, 2012
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#4
I do not object to any of these suggestions.

The Mine one could work... It's not that much different to a spell to generate more money... and as long as maps can have a setting for whether or not to allow the money spell, then all's good?
 
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Greensage

Guest
#5
The Mine one could work... It's not that much different to a spell to generate more money... and as long as maps can have a setting for whether or not to allow the money spell, then all's good?
Then I think mines are more attractive than a spell.
 

Jax0K

Cultist
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Jan 10, 2013
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#6
I thought that the mine would be like a map has it or it doesn´t. (Maybe even have many mines that deplete overtime, you just have to find them).

The portal is like a bottleneck passage that you can use or shut down (you can´t put your minions on enemy territory). But it would be too easy if the enemy couldn´t do anything about it. And there should be other ways to get to your enemy, this is just a shortcut.

The tentacle is like a spell that you would get by completing a mission (maybe if you are against enemy keepers they have it as well). Like you feed the tentacle monster with mana to make it come out (or have it as a time based spell that you can activate after a certain time).
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#7
I'd stick with Gem or an ability or spell wich will grant gold.

I agree with idea of letting Heart defend itself. It shouldn't have any price but an average damage and balanced cooldown. Additionally, the less health Heart has, the more often it will attack, but it's damage will be reduced even more. Could have so-called knockback or shockwave effect aswell.
 
Likes: Amon

TheButcher

Priestess
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Jan 13, 2013
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#8
The mine could work alright but have a limited on the amount of imps you can send in...this would make mines on the map a strategic point that you would try defend.

Heart Protection could be a spell you could cast for a limited duration.

Portals could be a room you create but again, with a limited number you could build (Say 1 or 2).
 

Eek

Matriarch
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Oct 22, 2012
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#9
i really like the heart protection idea...
i occasionally used to win by possessing a mistress and using lightning on the enemy heart.
it always felt like cheating.

having heart protection would definitely avoid dirty tactics like that!
 

Robofish

Bard
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#10
I don't like the mine idea. If you have managed to dig out ALL the gold, and still cant win, you should really try harder next time. Also some maps may be specifically designed to limit your resources. On maps where its beneficial to have infinite gold, there will be gems.

As for the portal idea, I assume your talking about something original, and not that you will be able to travel through the portals creatures are obtained from? If so I think I like this idea, there's a lot that could be done with them I think, such as granting the only access to some beneficial locations hidden behind impenetrable rock, as well as improving creature mobility on other maps.

I disagree with the heart protection very strongly. Similar ideas have already been suggested, but I believe you already have plenty of potential defenses in your creatures, traps, spells, dungeon layout, etc. If you fail to stop the enemy reaching your heart, you have only yourself to blame, and should not be bailed out by auto defenses.
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#11
I disagree with the heart protection very strongly. Similar ideas have already been suggested, but I believe you already have plenty of potential defenses in your creatures, traps, spells, dungeon layout, etc. If you fail to stop the enemy reaching your heart, you have only yourself to blame, and should not be bailed out by auto defenses.
Heart's defense is required to prevent enemy creatures from auto-focusing your heart, like it was in DK2 - during attack creatures would focus Dungeon Heart, ignoring attackers. Attacks from heart won't do much damage, but will stun attackers, making them switch target and focus on defenders, as they normally should.
 

Robofish

Bard
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#12
Heart's defense is required to prevent enemy creatures from auto-focusing your heart, like it was in DK2 - during attack creatures would focus Dungeon Heart, ignoring attackers. Attacks from heart won't do much damage, but will stun attackers, making them switch target and focus on defenders, as they normally should.
I cannot disagree more. It is your job to not just protect your heart, but stop the enemy from reaching it at all costs. As it is you can always fend off a few rushers anyway, but if you allow the big climactic battle to take place around your heart, you haven't done your job and deserve to lose.
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#13
I cannot disagree more. It is your job to not just protect your heart, but stop the enemy from reaching it at all costs. As it is you can always fend off a few rushers anyway, but if you allow the big climactic battle to take place around your heart, you haven't done your job and deserve to lose.
You got it wrong.

Enemy will attack your heart. Your creatures defend it by attacking your enemy's creature. Now instead of fighting back, enemy's creatures focus your heart, destroying it quickly when in truth they should switch target and attack nearest enemy creature instead. Since enemy can heal his creatures he won't have a problem tanking your creatures and destroying your heart because your creatures will probably focus only the part of the enemy's troops. Result - enemy destroys your heart not because his army is stronger, but because his troops attack your heart, while your creatures attack only the nearest enemy they see.
 

Robofish

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#14
You got it wrong.
Enemy will attack your heart. Your creatures defend it by attacking your enemy's creature. Now instead of fighting back, enemy's creatures focus your heart, destroying it quickly when in truth they should switch target and attack nearest enemy creature instead. Since enemy can heal his creatures he won't have a problem tanking your creatures and destroying your heart because your creatures will probably focus only the part of the enemy's troops. Result - enemy destroys your heart not because his army is stronger, but because his troops attack your heart, while your creatures attack only the nearest enemy they see.
The enemy will Try and attack your heart. It's your job to either place enough obstacles in his way and respond quickly enough that this is impossible, or to take the initiative yourself and take the fight to him if your not so much of a defensive player.
 

Jax0K

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#15
The enemy will Try and attack your heart. It's your job to either place enough obstacles in his way and respond quickly enough that this is impossible, or to take the initiative yourself and take the fight to him if your not so much of a defensive player.
I was thinking more that the enemy has it as well and it is harder to kill them.
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#17
The enemy will Try and attack your heart. It's your job to either place enough obstacles in his way and respond quickly enough that this is impossible, or to take the initiative yourself and take the fight to him if your not so much of a defensive player.
Yes, but according your logic you lose the game as soon as you start going into full defense, wich is wrong. Player may still fight back when he fights at heart because his creatures won't retreat anymore, while enemy's will.

As I said - this mechanism was broken because it's easier for attacker attack the heart, while for defender it's much harder to defend it as he has to deal with numerous creatures at the same time. It's like 20 vs 20 creatures, where enemy's 20 focus your heart, instead of fighting those 20 defenders of yours.
 
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Robofish

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#18
Yes, but according your logic you lose the game as soon as you start going into full defense, wich is wrong. Player may still fight back when he fights at heart because his creatures won't retreat anymore, while enemy's will.

As I said - this mechanism was broken because it's easier for attacker attack the heart, while for defender it's much harder to defend it as he has to deal with numerous creatures at the same time. It's like 20 vs 20 creatures, where enemy's 20 focus your heart, instead of fighting those 20 defenders of yours.
Actually all I'm trying to say is that your defenses should be designed to stop the enemy from reaching your heart in the first place.
 
Jan 3, 2013
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#19
Actually all I'm trying to say is that your defenses should be designed to stop the enemy from reaching your heart in the first place.
Ofcourse they are. But what I say that there was a problem in DK2 with pushing/attacking/fighting the Heart. Attacking creatures didn't act like they were supposed to ( like in v1.3 ). Also giving heart ability to defend itself may change things a lot, like make rushing even harder and fight at the heart more reckless. After all, if you can no longer defend yourself you will lose, be it with heart's autonomous defense system or without it.
 

ShadowTiger

Crackpot
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#20
Okay, let's assume that all keepers in a skirmish map develop at the same rate. That makes it hard to rush another keeper if you spend more time looking for that keeper than developing your own creatures to be able to rush or defend against that keeper. Rushes are pretty hard to pull off, I guess.
 
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