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'The unveiled creatures feedback post'

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toffeejay

Dryad
WFTO Founder
Dec 25, 2011
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#1
I thought I’d set up this post as a method of gaining users thoughts on the creatures which the team have unveiled so far.

I put this in the suggestions forum as I hope if there is a strong general consensus on certain things the team may look at improvements. I don’t expect the team to have to take on board everything or change for one person but I think it would be good if we find we share the same views then there could be edits done.
When the original Juggernaught was announced way back a lot of people thought the hammer was too small and the design team took this feedback and increased the size.

Please keep criticisms constructive. This is not about saying “said character is crap, get rid of it”, it’s about minor visual/role changes to make them look/work better. If you’re not happy with something say it but also suggest how it could be made better.

Also be positive, if you really like something post it!

I’ll start with my praises:
The Blood Imp – wonderful, the DK imps were so innocent and stupid looking but these guys look like little mischievous, sinister monsters. With the DK imps they always looked petrified when running away from heroes but with these guys you know they’ll be smiling as the make their escape aware they can easily out run a Juggernaught.
Juggernaught – I wasn’t convinced by the name when first unveiled but it’s really grown on me. The body shape and armour are just right. Can’t wait to set 5 or 6 Gnarlings onto one.
Cultist – He looks like a right miserable character! Fits the role perfect.
Oculus – When I first saw him in the video I really liked it and thought it would be a powerful creature but I never envisioned it as a scout, and yet it fits so much better this way. I doubt I’ll be throwing him back down a portal as I would with a firefly!
Gargoyle – Absolutely love it.Its little things like this that make me know this game is not only made by talented people but is also supported by strong concepts and ideas.
The Firebreather – I like it, in DK the hero characters were often bland and lacked a real berserker style attacker. This will give good balance, especially in multiplayer.
The Gnarling - I love the skinny, lanky body. Stealing amour off dead enemies haha yes! He looks a lot more vicious than the DK2 goblins.


Now for the criticisms:

The Gnarling - I like him but... The helmet oh god what is that? Maybe it will look better when he is kitted out with more armour but it just looks weird. Its less medieval helmet and more like a safety cushioned helmet for in an asylum or what a kid would wear for American football. I’d suggest something like the juggernaught has with the vertical visors (but black/very dark grey) or the types that Moiria orcs wear in LOTR.

Dwarven Worker – Sorry struggling for positives. I’m glad it’s still a dwarf, nothing else would work but the design isn’t right. He doesn’t look medieval he looks like he’s a stereotypical IT engineer off to play paintball or drink real ale. Are those combat pants? The shirt looks WWI solider.
His bodyshape also looks wrong, for the firebreather it looks right but not this (I imagine the firebreather is a reskin so the shapes are the same but somehow the shirt doesn’t make him look stout and dwarf like.)
Also he’s smaller than the blood imp?
 

The End

Priestess
Dec 19, 2012
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Everywhere.
#3
I agree with everything you said, except the Gnarling. I'd like him to be taller, and just ever so slightly more buff. Don't get me wrong; he's supposed to be a pack hunter, and the look fits perfectly, I just don't see myself caring to keep any around once I can have Black Knights.
 
Apr 23, 2012
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#4
I enjoy looking at everything, however, granlings helmets look weird. WIll his appearance change as he collects gear?
 

Joe

Priestess
Nov 10, 2012
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#5
I think on the matter of the Dwarf aesthetic they've perhaps cut down on all what i'd consider the dwarven worker features because of the firebreather; and that is that the Dwarven workers should aesthetically be built heavier. The original concept if we lift it straight from D1 has the full body armor, helmet, pickaxe etc.

Obviously they wanted to emphasis that he isn't a fighter, but a bit of heavier padding wouldn't do him any harm. I'd settle just for some shoulder pads and a less thread worn looking outfit.

In total agreement on the gnarlings helmet, but I'm assuming that this is negligable as he picks up anything and everything better along the way.

Small qualms though, s'all looking great to me!
 

Filipse

Priestess
Dec 20, 2012
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Sundsvall, Sweden
#6
The Beholder (occulus), looks somewhat strange to me the eyes arent entirely realisticaly circular, and it feels somewhat like the iris of the eye itself goes inwards when i look at it, it doesnt view alot with shadows on and all but still, i think it looks abit strange and off in some strange fashion.

Gargoyle, is a good concept a guardian-demon that animates when the foes threaten your treasure there's alot to work with on that one, and the art in this case looks rather awesome, althrough personaly i could see them being bigger, with an especial focus upon the wingspan and tail-parts, glowing eyes could be a nice addition when they're in animated-mode.

Firebreather, i like the concept with the helmet and all but for a beserker-type he doesnt just cut the feeling for me, he's entirely unarmored and yet isnt buff, muscular or realy fierce-looking ingeneral, he actualy looks clumsy, i supponse its okay if he recieves a more whimsical nature on sound and animations, however to realy add to the firebeather part maybe some animations of him standing around could include actual ripples of flame coming out from the mask or so ocationaly, and perhaps his breathing ingeneral could be rippled akin to how fire works in air in reality, maybe even an idle-type animation (bored-reaction) where he actualy accidentaly lits his hand or arm on fire just to shake it out or the likes?


Blood-Imps: Needs more sounds for example a hacking sound for when hitting tiles... (played the demo so might have changed by now ;_; could'nt slap them in the demo)
 

Inlaa

Arcanist
Jan 11, 2012
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#7
I'm only going to comment on creatures' appearance, as I haven't tried the demo yet. Rather, I'm going to praise one unit and "meh" at another.

Gnarling - I love the concept. It's genius, as far as I'm concerned; weak, but able to become more and more potent by looting the fallen. This seems like exactly the sort of thing I've wanted from a goblin-type unit for a long time. Of course, this means I can't say much about its appearance because I haven't seen it wearing high level armor, but that's fine.

Firebreather - I really don't like the armor, or the lack of thereof. His musculature is fine, but the helmet seems... off. A big, skull-like helmet for an otherwise naked dwarf just makes me think I'm looking at a chubby Voodoo practitioner who forgot to tan. Also, maybe the helmet could show his beard off a bit better, or, to make it more visible, his beard could be black most of the time. As it is, it's hard to see it. But, yes-- he needs a different helmet. And if I had to make ANY complaint about his body shape beyond "It's fine, I like it," I MIGHT say that his belly should look a little less flabby and a bit more stiff/firm. Not necessarily thin or MASCLES, but not quite as floppy.

Every Other Unit - Seems nice. I like the idea of putting basic padding on the dwarven worker, though.
 

Jackpot Winner

Arcanist
WFTO Backer
Nov 29, 2012
142
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#8
The five hours or so that I played of Overlord before I got bored of it have made it abundantly obvious that the Gnarling is a direct reference to the minions of that game. For those who are unaware, the game's Pikmin-esque gameplay has you summon minions and direct them to attack foes en masse. Freshly-summoned minions are naked and unarmed, but as they defeat enemies or smash parts of the scenery they will scavenge equipment to use as armour and weapons, anything from pumpkins to barrels to pitchforks. However, you can only have a limited number of minions following you, and once these upgraded minions die they must be replaced with fresh unequipped ones again, and this penalty forces you to be more strategic with your battles and consider the worth of your minions more carefully.

It will be most interesting to see this mechanic in WFTO. I wonder what aspects of the other creatures have been nicked from inspired by other games? :)
 

ohmai

Templar
WFTO Founder
Dec 23, 2012
21
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#10
Pardon the soon to be long pessay, character design was something I looked forward to the most with this game. Since DK had some of my most memorable game characters I ever came across. So i'll go through each unit and just lump my pros/cons (or one of em) into a para.

Dark Creatures (Underworld creatures… dark side basically)

Blood Imps - Utterly in love, the soulless black eyes… the evil shade of red, oh! And that faux mohawk lol… they're an upgrade from our original DK imps that's for sure.

Cultist - I agree, perfect fit! The miserable frown is one of my favorite interesting bits for the appearance of this character. Oh and the ram scepter like weapon as well.

Augre - I kinda love the name play for some nerdy odd reason. And I like their backstory with the scavenging leading to better armor/survivability etc. My only issue with the character design is oddly the tail. I like the hammer head hand attachment and I thought that fitted seamlessly. But the tail itself having scorpion like pincers seem irrelevant to me at this point in time. Maybe take out the pincers, make it a spiky tail or even a shorter one. That was probably my only critique about that creature, aside from that, he's pretty brilliant.

Gargoyle - Ugh one of my favorites, I actually love the gargoyle idea, that it guards treasures and is stoic still provoked. Perfection. I hope his eyes glow ablaze when coming to "life".

Oculus - Love his concept and that its a scout. He's not one of my favorites but neither were the flies in DK. I do think all the eyes are pretty cool, do they even blink? Cause simultaneous blinking on sporadic random moments might be pretty badass. Reminds me of an intestine and medusa lovechild…. I do wish he was a lot more slimy just to gross him out a little bit more.

Gnarling - This seems to be the unit that most are speaking about above. I do like the concept of them being cheap dismissible units that grow stronger foraging from enemy remains. I do love the skinniness of it, kinda increases their cheap scavenger factor. I like the material used for his armor/clothing now, but I do think the helmet makes him look a little too tribal shaman-y and I can't take him very seriously as a fighter with that on. Can a more rigid leather helmet be used? Or scrap em entirely… not too sure. Are his eyes white too? Cause a blank stare would be great on this one.


Empire Creatures ("Good Guys")

Dwarven Miner - I'm not too thrilled about the dwarven miner. Don't get me wrong though, i think it /needs/ to be a Dwarve for this to work, but the character design at the moment now seems unfitting for the scenario. I think the humanoid characters need a exaggerations in proportions to make them have more character. I agree with toffeejay in terms of how the Firebreather looks a lot better even though they're kinda the same "species" so to speak. I think it might be cause we can actually see skin in that unit, the exaggerated fat bulge on the Firebreather's tummy gives it a more organic feel. The Dwarven worker is far too rigid for it to be believable as a nimble "quick to excavate" walls being.
I think his clothes need to be looser, or strip him so he's a lot sweatier and worker like. Proportions wise, his shoulders broader with a smaller pelvis (inverted triangle) and feet significantly shorter than it is now to give the impression that it has to move terribly fast in order for him to gain distance. Anything to make him more organic, fluid and interesting.

Firebreather - As I touched on above, I actually do like this particular Dwarf. The fact that he's drunk makes him even more hilarious. Berserker like as toffeejay mentioned. I can imagine possessing him and kinda loopy walk all over da place. Plus alcohol and fire, pretty legit combination tbh.

Juggernaught -- This particular unit grew on me, I like the exaggerated proportions. Exactly what I thought would work best in terms of giving the empire a lot more personality than they had back in DK. His hammer and armor is pretty badass.



Ah there we go with my long post, I hope the suggestions help somewhat. I must say everything so far /is/ looking really good whether there be changes based on feedback or not!
 

toffeejay

Dryad
WFTO Founder
Dec 25, 2011
224
206
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#11
Augre - Love it, a perfect hulking builder unit. I've seen so many 'weapons grafted onto body' disasters over the years but this works perfectly. They seamlessly fit. Only negative would be the tail - its to long. Perhaps the pincers will be used in manufacturing and that’s why? But he looks a bit overkill with it. I've seen about 6 or 7 posts on kickstarter not liking it either and 1 very positive. Just have to see.
He's bad though right? The part about him worshiping a dwarf god was a little confusing.

To touch upon ohami's points :
Cultists blade - Meant to say about that myself. Beautifully designed.
Gargoyle - would love to see something similar to Ghostbusters!
Oculus - I think it would be better with the blinking not in sequence of each other so he always has a couple of eyes open, would be much creepier.
 

M4G

Priestess
Dec 4, 2012
3
3
200
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#12
First off, excellent idea on the division of creatures with the recent update! It makes sense that some minions are more beastly, some more cosmopolitan, and some very unique in their desires.

Blood Imps - Fantastic. Wonder if they have any slightly differently colored kin we might also see?

Gargoyle - This is a very good unit! LOVE that it feeds off of greed, and desires a place silently guarding treasury/your core.

The Gnarling - Very nice concept, I really hope that they have several starting visuals and change appearance as they go on scavenging.

Dwarven Miner - I'm happy with the name and the concept, but I think the visual needs some refining. Perhaps a few questions that can help with this; how does the dwarf see in the dark? Do they carry a lantern, or a torch, or a glowing stone? Do they see in the dark? Also, when mining, do they stop to taste/bite the stone to see if there's anything good in it? Might they wear a helmet to protect against falling rocks, such as worn by the left-most person here?
http://www.medievaltymes.com/courtyard/images/maciejowski/leaf10/otm10ra&b.gif
Closeup; http://www.medievaltymes.com/courtyard/images/maciejowski/leaf10/otm10ra&bdetail5.gif
Incidentally, there are lots of neat weapon/armour ideas here and in other medieval sources; axes, choppers, clubs, crossbows. I do medieval combat research and teach Italian historical fencing- let me know if you guys are looking for other equipment/combat motion ideas.

Juggernaught -- This guy is great work. The polehammer he's got looks close to medieval originals in several museums!

Augre - excellent story, thinking that this minion allows for a lot of variation in appearance, which should fit nicely with player mods and such.

Oculus - I really like the concept, but I have a slight sticking point with this. I wonder if a change of appearance might be worth considering. It does feel a little like a beholder part-way through asexual reproduction. I've given it a haircut, see below;
oculus_mod.png
 

Robofish

Bard
WFTO Founder
Dec 1, 2012
507
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Surrey, laughing at how rubbish Sussex is.
#13
The Augre is my favorite addition so far. I have little to say besides that because I have nothing to criticize or make suggestions for improvement upon. If he is fun and balanced to play with as the quality of his concept and design, I say bravo, and I can but hope that quality continues with all that they continue to unveil. Good job guys! :)
 
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skacky

Priestess
WFTO Backer
Dec 25, 2012
8
0
210
30
France
#16
Blood Imp - Love 'em. I already loved the Imps in DK, and I think the new mischievous looks and attitude works wonders.
Oculus - I like their Beholder style, but I also think M4G's take on them is great since I'm not a huge fan of the upper body. Something to consider; why don't the Oculus start with only one eye like on M4G's take and grow more as they level up or explore? This could also expand their vision. Just a thought.
Cultist - They look really cool. I don't have a lot to say about them, they're great.
Gargoyle - They remind me of the Dragons in DK that were attracted to a lot of gold, and I love the Gargoyle's role. If you decide to include a thief unit for the heroes, it could make a perfect defense against them.
Gnarling - Ha, they look good and their role is very interesting while being very similar to Overlord.
Augre - Love 'em, but you should lose the tail in my opinion.

Dwarven Miner - Like a lot of people, I'm not keen on them at all. They definitely don't look medieval which is a shame.
Dwarven Firebreather - I like their role, they could become a nuisance really quickly. I also like their appearance quite a bit.
Juggernaught - Love 'em, they look a lot more fearsome and full of pride than the Knights in DK2.
 

Badwolf699

Ember Demon
WFTO Founder
Dec 18, 2011
2,370
633
545
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#17
I like the Augre too, he reminds me of a medieval cyborg ruthless to others andkind to his allies.
The fire breather sounds great, but because he's drunk all the time will he be mumbling, grumbling? being abusive to other creautres like an angry drunk?
Staggering his way through the dungeon setting fire to things?
If so that would be interesting, if he attacks another enemy Underlords heart he'll give it "Heartburn" ;)
 

ohmai

Templar
WFTO Founder
Dec 23, 2012
21
13
230
33
#18
Oculus - I like their Beholder style, but I also think M4G's take on them is great since I'm not a huge fan of the upper body. Something to consider; why don't the Oculus start with only one eye like on M4G's take and grow more as they level up or explore? This could also expand their vision. Just a thought.
^ I thought that was a brilliant idea, to make em grow their eyes & expand vision as they level up!
 
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toffeejay

Dryad
WFTO Founder
Dec 25, 2011
224
206
385
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#19
This is an excellent thread, keep the feedback comin!
Thanks Kyle, I'm happy to say the vast majority of creatures feedback has been positive. The dwarfs appearance being the only consistently negative.


Does anyone remember the bloodling
Yes I remember, I believe originally we were given a vote on whether it was to be him or the blood imp as the worker unit. The blood imp was chosen and the bloodling was then mentioned an attacking unit butI don't know if he will be still in the game though after the split?
 

Simburgur

Managing Director
Brightrock Games
Nov 10, 2011
2,864
1,979
670
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Brighton, UK
www.twitter.com
#20
Yes I remember, I believe originally we were given a vote on whether it was to be him or the blood imp as the worker unit. The blood imp was chosen and the bloodling was then mentioned an attacking unit butI don't know if he will be still in the game though after the split?
He is, but there's been a few changes. He will be in an dev diary at some point post-KS.
 
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