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[Unit] Troll

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Cold_Ankles

Gargoyle
WFTO Backer
Dec 10, 2011
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South Australia
#1
Name Troll

Stats:

Health: Lots
Attack: Lots
Armour: Lots
Accuracy: Avg.
Agility: Not much
Speed: Not much
Luck: Neutral
Recovery Rate: slow
Intelligence: Average
Construction: Average
Training Rate: Slow
Training Cost: A lot
Wage: A lot. Eats it.
Gender: Either

Skills:
Level 1: Melee
Level 2: Slam - simple knockback and stun attack
Level 4: Momentum - The troll gets up to a *slow* run and bowls creatures over.
Level 5: Bash
Level 7: Toss - The troll picks a creature sufficiently small and tosses it at some other enemy creatures

Information: Trolls are a silicious creature (made of rocks) and as such they eat rocks. They are slow and hardy and difficult to kill.

Behavior in Dungeon: sits in the treasury looking at your gold drooling

Battle Style: Blocker

Jobs: Guards/Tunnels(constructs)

Obtainable By: Portal

Hates: no

Loves: eating rocks.

Anger reaction: leaves in a huff bashing into any creatures unfortunate to get in it's way

Lair: a patch of dirt

Appearance: A large rock with arms, legs and a head.


How Introduced: Don't know.
Attracted by: an amount of gold in your treasury

Entrance Effect: Don't know.

Torture: the torturer removes the troll's diamond teeth and pockets them.

Advisor Quotes: This creature is made of rock and stone, very hardy and durable. But beware they eat rocks and other precious metals so don't let it stay too long in your treasury.
 

Cold_Ankles

Gargoyle
WFTO Backer
Dec 10, 2011
372
115
315
26
South Australia
#3
This describes a golem way more than any troll depiction I'm aware. Is this a mix up, or is this intentional?
It's intentional. Golems are created and mechanical and don't require food/payment. Trolls, or at least the interpretation I've chosen to use, are creatures of rock that eat rock. Pretty much totally inspired by Terry Pratchett.
 
Likes: Amon
Jan 22, 2012
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#4
First impression:
Rolling troll gathers no blood :)
Heh i am used to normal image of troll :/
He may hate dwarfs cause they have picks XD
Edit after sleep
 

Cold_Ankles

Gargoyle
WFTO Backer
Dec 10, 2011
372
115
315
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South Australia
#6
I like the concept, throwing rocks could be added as a ranged attack. I think "Golem" would suit this creature better than "Troll" though.
The only difference between golems and this interpretation of a troll, is that golems are manufactured and don't require wages etc. Hence why I decided troll would be better.
 

amcoops

Priestess
WFTO Founder
Dec 9, 2011
121
39
215
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North Devon, England
#8
The only difference between golems and this interpretation of a troll, is that golems are manufactured and don't require wages etc. Hence why I decided troll would be better.
No they don't, it's pure fiction. If that's the case then Trolls look like they do in Dungeon Keeper and can't be your interpretation of the creature.
 

Inlaa

Priestess
Jan 11, 2012
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Texas
#9
I think Cold_Ankles is referring to the fact that, typically speaking, Golems are depicted as constructs or creations. They are not born, but made. They are given a singular purpose in existence and they carry out that order. In comparison, a troll is a living, breathing creature that happens to have rocky skin and eat stone, in this case.
 

amcoops

Priestess
WFTO Founder
Dec 9, 2011
121
39
215
30
North Devon, England
#10
I can understand that, it's just they way he worded it as if Golems were a concept set in stone (pun not intended), yet he's creating his own interpretation of a troll. Also his description, "A large rock, with arms, legs and a head" reminds me of the Pokemon "Golem".

Like I've said, the concept is one I like, I just think the name needs revisiting, rather than just "Troll".
 

Jared

Blood Imp
Nov 23, 2011
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Gold Coast Australia
#11
Troll's are ORGANIC creatures if it's made of rock or wood or of some other element like water fire ect. it's a GOLEM period.

Having said that I love the idea of the troll coming back! although if it does make it into WFTO I'd like to see it true to lore as in being very powerful yet quite stupid, basically a later level creature .......... Then again if they were being TRUE to fantasy lore and canon a troll would not really be able to fit in an underground dungeon well certainly not in narrow corridors as they are the second largest Humanoid creature next to a Cyclops I'm talking between 30m - 50m high at least and damn solid. Cyclops is over 70m high Ogre's generally between 15 -25m high Ogre's are more stocky then Trolls though and more human in appearance where as Trolls tend to have very long nose's and more beast like features. Orc's are between 4m to 10m high

But yeah so you'll have to shrink the ol Troll down to fit him in the dungeon anyway after almost getting banned I learned my lesson about not beating everyone down into the ground with my trusty LORE/CANON STICK!:D:p
 

Inlaa

Priestess
Jan 11, 2012
426
134
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Texas
#12
Allow me to point something out about the words "lore" and "canon," because this is something that I feel is important when they're being used to talk about whether or not something is a good suggestion:

The terms "Canon" and "Lore" in the context you are using them typically refer to a certain universe's "history." For instance, in the mythological universe of Greek mythology, it is "canon" that centaur are crude, barbaric creatures. However, this is not "canon" for the Forgotten Realms universe. In Forgotten Realms "lore," they are peaceful woodland creatures.

War for the Overworld is many things. I can tell you that it is inspired by Dungeon Keeper. I can tell you that it is inspired by mythology, by common fantasy tropes, and other such things. These statements are true. I can also tell you what it is not: It is NOT going to be based in the same universe as any other, including the Dungeon Keeper universe; therefore, it is its own new universe. In other words, anything "canon" about War for the Overworld is to be decided by the developers.

Please understand this when using these terms: War for the Overworld is having a unique universe created for it. If the developers decide that their trolls should be made of rock, then that is "canon" for this universe. If they choose otherwise, that is "canon." Nothing that has been done in another universe factors in to what is "canon" here except for inspiring possible choices they make when designing things.

Also, the word "orc" is derived from the Old English term meaning "demon," or so Tolkein himself said. Since Tolkein was the first to create orcs, we can look at how tall he depicted them to get a good look at how they were originally depicted. You state that orcs are 4 meters (13+ feet) to 10 meters (almost 33 feet) tall. Even according to the most original source on orcs - Tolkein, this is a very, very inaccurate description. If we decide to instead say that we are talking about demons, since this is where the term was derived, I am fairly certain demons in biblical text can be of almost any shape or size. This means the height description is still inaccurate. To conclude this paragraph, "4-10 meters tall" is a most wrong way to define orcs.

Now, about the troll itself, having looked at it again and looked at previous posts:

I don't see why this would be a golem, to be perfectly honest. A golem doesn't eat. Living creatures eat. However, with a slight change in flavor, you COULD turn this into a golem. A golem's "Wages" could be translated into spending resources to maintain the magical wards that sustain the construct. After all, once you build or purchase a machine, do you not have to give it repairs, check ups and similar things? (Use a car as an example.) Instead of eating rocks, the golem would simply not eat at all, but perhaps could require extra sleep.

If you opt to keep this creature as a troll, then keep in mind the qualities of trolls that will help people connect the name with the creature. A common trait that could be used for this is "regeneration" as regenerating trolls have become fairly common in the fantasy genre, likely courtesy of D&D's influence. You could also consider how the creature moves, fights, walks... And, well, generally disgusting behaviors.

I know of a few troll pictures very similar to what you have there. I will post this art. Please note: We cannot use this art ourselves because it is the property of Battle for Wesnoth; it is merely an example picture to help you brainstorm and other such things. (Sorry, I always note these things before posting pictures off the internet.) Oh, and if these pictures are not the property of Battle for Wesnoth, they're certainly the property of SOMEONE ELSE. Forgive my poor knowledge of these things.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:...PjHxVueNvoo7kcJYytcTb0eWRxYhencTNYRoENPL_HRsg

http://forums.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?id=30106

I hope something I've posted has proved useful in some way, and I apologize that so much of my post was spent discussing definitions.
 
Likes: Co0kieL0rd
Jan 19, 2012
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#13
Agree with the big wall of text above really. The lore is whatever Subterranean Games games decide. A new lore is written for each game that is really thought through. They could add a fifty stories tall thingir and call it a fairy and it's still according to the lore. Trolls are a must have it's just a matter of the interpretation. I like the idea of a living rock. The appearance of it can really be awesome if enough thought is put into the design.

Btw... you mentioned pokemon.. How awesome would it be to have a pikachu unit?! (sorry at work, dead ass bored and playing pokemon yellow on a gba emulator)
 
Nov 14, 2011
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#14
I feel so powerful, heehee.

Though I must say that Suggestions are probably going to be accepted based on their statistical information mostly, or that's how I see it anyways. I'm quite flexible and can tie any two things together by story and lore strings, so I really don't need the other developers to be concerned about how the lore will end up fitting together. That goes for Suggesters as well. I had no problem creating the original Dungeon Keeper lore that WftO previously used nor will I have any problem creating a new set of lore for WftO to use.
 
#15
I feel so powerful, heehee.

Though I must say that Suggestions are probably going to be accepted based on their statistical information mostly, or that's how I see it anyways. I'm quite flexible and can tie any two things together by story and lore strings, so I really don't need the other developers to be concerned about how the lore will end up fitting together. That goes for Suggesters as well. I had no problem creating the original Dungeon Keeper lore that WftO previously used nor will I have any problem creating a new set of lore for WftO to use.
I feel that suggestions are going to be butchered and the "good" pieces will be taken from them, whether that be a characters appearance, mechanics, stats, attacks whatever. Most suggestions won't be taken up as a whole unit.
 

Jared

Blood Imp
Nov 23, 2011
240
34
5
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Gold Coast Australia
#17
Allow me to point something out about the words "lore" and "canon,"
Yeah well like I said before I accepted that each mythical universe will have it's own LORE/CANON , Although it is hard to convey radical changes and have them accepted by and large by everyone I guess when we say canon/lore we should really say what is the GENERAL consensus on what a person perceives when they hear of a certain creature say everyone knows vampires are allergic to sunlight garlic crucifix's ect. This is easier to pull off with relatively unknown creatures such as KOBOLD'S a mythical beast but never really used in movies games book's because of that lack of exposure I guess you could make it into anything you want and have it accepted, thing is TROLL'S & GOLEM'S are widely used in movies comics games books ect. So most people especially those into Fantasy will have a general idea of what a Troll looks like how it behaves same with the Golem, now traditionally Trolls turn to STONE when exposed to sunlight ( The very old ones anyway ) but when they are alive they are NOT made of stone so your idea for a ROCK troll will never be accepted the name might ROCK TROLL has a nice ring to it but it can't be made of rock it's self.

Um on the Orc thing well maybe I got the sizing a bit wrong yes it's true that Tolkien invented them so they are his creation thus they would have been between 2 - 3m tall + I'm pretty sure the small buggers your referring to in the Tolkein Universe are actually Goblin-men not Orc's remember the Orc's are in fact the Uruk Hai 4 - 10m high is a gross exaggeration that's their sizing in the Warhammer universe which is the best portrayal of an Orc I have ever seen , my apologies lol I guess when I think of Orc's I'm not influenced by Tolkien but by a childhood love of Warhammer & Warhammer 40k , anyway my apologies for getting that wrong.

but then again I think we can all agree the Warhammer incarnation of the Orc is what is more accepted as what an Orc SHOULD look like, basically WOW ripped that off all they did was shrink em down a bit give them nose's and make their facial features less gorilla like and more human like judge for yourselves:
Warhammer Orc's
m1520951a_ORC_wallpaper_1024x768.jpg

dwarf_slayer_16232.jpg

blackorc-concept-01.jpg


WOW Orc's
3D-Orc.png

wowa343p52YkU0S45.jpg

Comission___Orc_Warrior_by_pulyx.jpg
 

Co0kieL0rd

Cultist
WFTO Backer
Jan 29, 2012
115
32
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#18
Yeah well like I said before I accepted that each mythical universe will have it's own LORE/CANON , Although it is hard to convey radical changes and have them accepted by and large by everyone I guess when we say canon/lore we should really say what is the GENERAL consensus on what a person perceives when they hear of a certain creature say everyone knows vampires are allergic to sunlight garlic crucifix's ect. This is easier to pull off with relatively unknown creatures such as KOBOLD'S a mythical beast but never really used in movies games book's because of that lack of exposure I guess you could make it into anything you want and have it accepted, thing is TROLL'S & GOLEM'S are widely used in movies comics games books ect.
The good thing about games and imagination is, you can create/enter a whole new world with it's own rules and neither have to care about reality nor lore from other fictions. I dare players to accept uncommon lore and adapt to the features it implements when they become acquainted with a new game.
So most people especially those into Fantasy will have a general idea of what a Troll looks like how it behaves same with the Golem, now traditionally Trolls turn to STONE when exposed to sunlight ( The very old ones anyway ) but when they are alive they are NOT made of stone so your idea for a ROCK troll will never be accepted the name might ROCK TROLL has a nice ring to it but it can't be made of rock it's self.
I like games where I'm able to fly. I know it's not possible in reality but who cares? I like the idea of living stone. I know it's not possible in reality but who cares? :D
In Dungeon Keeper, the Trolls are already a lot different from how they are usually depicted. But this is neither DK, nor LOTR, nor WH40k.
Um on the Orc thing well maybe I got the sizing a bit wrong yes it's true that Tolkien invented them so they are his creation thus they would have been between 2 - 3m tall + I'm pretty sure the small buggers your referring to in the Tolkein Universe are actually Goblin-men not Orc's remember the Orc's are in fact the Uruk Hai 4 - 10m high is a gross exaggeration that's their sizing in the Warhammer universe which is the best portrayal of an Orc I have ever seen , my apologies lol I guess when I think of Orc's I'm not influenced by Tolkien but by a childhood love of Warhammer & Warhammer 40k , anyway my apologies for getting that wrong.
Still inaccurate. Tolkein's average Orcs are even smaller than humans. Uruk Hai are a lot taller, but they definitely don't exceed 2,5m.
but then again I think we can all agree the Warhammer incarnation of the Orc is what is more accepted as what an Orc SHOULD look like, basically WOW ripped that off all they did was shrink em down a bit give them nose's and make their facial features less gorilla like and more human like judge for yourselves:
There's simply no rules for Orcs, Trolls, Ogres etc. And if anything, Tolkein created 1the most commonly accepted versions of the creatures his works include. Warhammer's lore may be known among fans and gamers. However, I doubt it goes far beyond that.
Did you know that in medieval folklore "troll" and "ogre", or "goblin" and "kobold" respectively, described the same kind of imaginary creatures, only in different languages?

Finally, to the Troll of this post. I like the idea but you need to provide more information about how it behaves in the dungeon. Also, there are already enough creatures for guarding, let alone that any creature can do this job. The Troll could be a neutral creauture that awakens when mistaken for a rock and tried to be dug by minions.
And all previous arguments put aside, for originality reasons, I'd none the less give this creature a different name. E. g. Dofus has living stone beings, too, that are called Cracklings.
 

Jared

Blood Imp
Nov 23, 2011
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#19
The good thing about games and imagination is, you can create/enter a whole new world with it's own rules and neither have to care about reality nor lore from other fictions. I dare players to accept uncommon lore and adapt to the features it implements when they become acquainted with a new game.

Yeah .... I don't think you quiet understand what I was saying there I meant you can have slight changes but not radical if your going to completely strip away everything that makes say a vampire a vampire then you may as well not even call it a vampire why? Well lets be logical about it if you have the imagination to create something unique and awesome is it really so hard to come up with a name for it as well? instead of just stealing a name that already exists? Even then it has to be logical tweaks say the vampire cannot be made out of wood & eat fungus & swim into the ocean to hibernate. Am I clear now?

I like games where I'm able to fly. I know it's not possible in reality but who cares? I like the idea of living stone. I know it's not possible in reality but who cares? :D
In Dungeon Keeper, the Trolls are already a lot different from how they are usually depicted. But this is neither DK, nor LOTR, nor WH40k.

Firstly ???? I don't know what your on about I never said anything about flying ........ that has nothing to do with what I was talking about ....... Secondly um yeah the Trolls physical depiction were really accurate of what a traditional troll looks like the only thing that wasn't accurate was their size ..... which I'm pretty sure I already said didn't really matter as it would have to be shrunk down in order to fit into a dungeon setting. Troll's the creature's originated from countries like Norway The word Troll comes from OLD FRENCH look up what their traditional Physical depiction is and you will find that their has been very little variance in how they are physically depicted nowadays in games movies books ect .... accept for the Trolls in Elder Scrolls Oblivion ... I don't know what the hell those things were but they weren't Trolls, defiantly didn't look like Trolls to me they looked stupid just like the Ogre's they had ..... not scary at all.

Still inaccurate. Tolkein's average Orcs are even smaller than humans. Uruk Hai are a lot taller, but they definitely don't exceed 2,5m.

No those were Goblin Men dude I mentioned that the Orcs WERE the Uruk Hai + How am I inaccurate in their sizing I said between 2 - 3m you said 2.5m you literally just repeated what I said 2.5m is precisely between 2 - 3m ......... do you see the loophole there?o_O

There's simply no rules for Orcs, Trolls, Ogres etc. And if anything, Tolkein created 1the most commonly accepted versions of the creatures his works include. Warhammer's lore may be known among fans and gamers. However, I doubt it goes far beyond that.

Bullcrap there are no rules to Orcs your literally talking about THE 3rd most recognizable villainess fantasy creature around Next to Vampires and Werewolves. Seriously if you showed a person ( who was into gaming well lets just say a fellow nerd basically as no one outside of nerds would know about much less give a flying fornication as to what the heck a Orc is ) a picture of an Orc from Warhammer or WOW he would tell you "that's an Orc" & Yes their are basic rules to Trolls & Ogre's to but I'm not getting into that.

Did you know that in medieval folklore "troll" and "ogre", or "goblin" and "kobold" respectively, described the same kind of imaginary creatures, only in different languages?

Troll and Ogre are both OLD FRENCH but they are NOT the same thing buddy once again I'm not going to bother explaining this research it for yourself , each creature you just mentioned has different attributes and appearance's to one another basically being separate species, you will find alot more info on Goblins then Kobolds though.

Trolls can't be MADE of stone ..... unless they are dead ....... if it's made of stone and is animated it's a Golem goddammit I thought I already explained this.:rolleyes:

Lastly I would like to see both a Troll & a Golem in this game as they are awesome fantasy creatures!:)
 
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