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WFTO Wednesday #15

Tommonius

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Doesn't sound like it, but it sounds like they never go pale and flat either - they're like everlasting gobstoppers. You can torture it all year, and it'll never get any smaller. Endless mana and all you need to do is violently beat the crap out of it and then drag it to your torture chamber and inflict endless pain upon it. I mean, that's not even a price - I'd do the violence and the torture for free!
I am wondering though will we have differant levels of torture, let me explain.

Can we have a static "light torture" that is painful to them and converts them at a much slower "safer" rate (non micromanaging)

and a heavier torture that actively weakens them but converts them faster but there is a very real chance they can die regardless of health due to their will or body unable to tolerate this level of harm (heavy micromanaging and requires a down time inbtween healing them so as to not spam it)

Yea I am sort of depraved for talking torture but then Overlords have to get into the "nitty gritty matters" plus if I want to torture Bloodlings for mana and stuff then I want it pumping out at a stable rate and not be distracted by an attack that diverts my attention and I loose my mana batteries...

We could balance it out by having the heavy torture giving a massive influx of mana to make up for the downtime... but regardless of ideas I wonder if torturing Bloodlings might end up cpnverting them and if it does what happens to our mana boost?

Because then I have to choose between more minions or getting more mana from torturing.
 

Enjou

Ember Demon
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Since bloodlings can be tortured endlessly, I don't think they die during the process or require any managing. I'm guessing lore wise they just heal faster than the torture damages them, as they can live off of the ambient mana they gather naturally. Also, bloodlings are a beast type unit - I doubt torture works on beasts for conversion purposes since they aren't intelligent enough to know that converting means the torture stops. For bloodlings, the only choice you have in regards to getting more mana vs. converting minions is that they would take up a slot in your torture chamber.

In regards to light vs. heavy torture, I don't think that adds much to the game. You don't have to micromanage torture that much in the DK games - just start with a fully healed unit and check back in every few minutes. You aren't torturing full time, so it's not full time micromanaging either.
 

Tommonius

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Since bloodlings can be tortured endlessly, I don't think they die during the process or require any managing. I'm guessing lore wise they just heal faster than the torture damages them, as they can live off of the ambient mana they gather naturally. Also, bloodlings are a beast type unit - I doubt torture works on beasts for conversion purposes since they aren't intelligent enough to know that converting means the torture stops. For bloodlings, the only choice you have in regards to getting more mana vs. converting minions is that they would take up a slot in your torture chamber.

In regards to light vs. heavy torture, I don't think that adds much to the game. You don't have to micromanage torture that much in the DK games - just start with a fully healed unit and check back in every few minutes. You aren't torturing full time, so it's not full time micromanaging either.
okay understandable but there is a point you made I want to expand on, the whole Bloodlings are to beast like to torture into submission but we have to kinds of minion and one is a beast class, by that logic all the beasts are unable to be forced into your service which sounds odd to me seeing as you can get them to serve you in the first place.
 

Enjou

Ember Demon
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okay understandable but there is a point you made I want to expand on, the whole Bloodlings are to beast like to torture into submission but we have to kinds of minion and one is a beast class, by that logic all the beasts are unable to be forced into your service which sounds odd to me seeing as you can get them to serve you in the first place.
The means of getting them to join you in the first place is probably not torture. Either they are neutrals that will join the first Underlord that finds them on the map, or there's some other way you have to attract their attention.
 

Tommonius

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The means of getting them to join you in the first place is probably not torture. Either they are neutrals that will join the first Underlord that finds them on the map, or there's some other way you have to attract their attention.
is it choclate? Because I don't see why I cannot waggle choclate or whatever suitable food alternative in their faces until they follow basic commands, I mean if they are beastial then how can they understand loyalty???

In before dogs and loyalty, we are dealing with floating tentacle monsters and Gargoyles, of course this may change if I get my wish for Hellhounds.

Come to think of it this brings up the idea of "intellegent torture" and "beast torture" for the later if choclate fails, I smackl them with rolled up Newspapers?
 

Simburgur

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Beasts can be converted, but through a different method related to a unit we haven't spoken about yet.

Bloodlings are hostile by default, and will require you to defeat them in order to capture and begin torturing. It's usually not worth converting them as they are far more valuable as a source of mana than as a combat unit.

The way the additional mana works is by increasing the size of your mana pool the same way that Ember Demons will reduce it.
 

Enjou

Ember Demon
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is it choclate? Because I don't see why I cannot waggle choclate or whatever suitable food alternative in their faces until they follow basic commands, I mean if they are beastial then how can they understand loyalty???
If it's food, I imagine it would be juicy bacon from your slaughter pen.

In regards to loyalty, I would assume that all your minions are magically bound to serve you so long as you meet your obligations to them (feeding them, housing them, paying them, etc.) seeing as how you can pick them up and drop them anywhere in your dungeon, but you can't do that to any other creature that isn't your prisoner. Once bound, creatures of lesser intelligence would probably be influenced by the magical bond to a greater degree and would obey basic commands because the bond would urge them to do so - that's probably far more efficient than taking the time to train them with juicy bacon treats.
 
Likes: Tommonius

James Hale

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For what it's worth, I dislike the seemingly arbitrary change to Nexus/Core, and feel that it unnecessarily removes a welcome reminder that we are playing the spiritual successor to Dungeon Keeper. I understand that you can't use a number of creature names for copyright reasons - and also because you want to use your own original designs - but Dungeon Heart is one of those classic things that should be kept. Also, I agree with the person who suggested the link between heart and veins. I also thought of that, and it won't work so well now.

Just my two cents, as they say.
 

Tommonius

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Beasts can be converted, but through a different method related to a unit we haven't spoken about yet.

Bloodlings are hostile by default, and will require you to defeat them in order to capture and begin torturing. It's usually not worth converting them as they are far more valuable as a source of mana than as a combat unit.

The way the additional mana works is by increasing the size of your mana pool the same way that Ember Demons will reduce it.
awesome reply, this is also why I mentioned two kinds of torture as we torture them for mana and CAN convert them but as you say they are more useful to squeeze more mana out of them but how do we continue to torture without accidently converting them is my general fear.

I understand if this is left blank as you mentioned beasts can be converted but in a differant way, so I am happy as long as this potential problem is being addressed. Thanks for all the info by the way, your a star! (very, very dark star which is a sign of great and terrible things to come...)

If it's food, I imagine it would be juicy bacon from your slaughter pen.

In regards to loyalty, I would assume that all your minions are magically bound to serve you so long as you meet your obligations to them (feeding them, housing them, paying them, etc.) seeing as how you can pick them up and drop them anywhere in your dungeon, but you can't do that to any other creature that isn't your prisoner. Once bound, creatures of lesser intelligence would probably be influenced by the magical bond to a greater degree and would obey basic commands because the bond would urge them to do so - that's probably far more efficient than taking the time to train them with juicy bacon treats.
Surely you cannot eat Bacon every day, (well they sa y that about chicken and Bacon tastes so much bettr, but you know what I mean) anyways it seems "the beat obediance training question" has been asnwered by Simburgur who said their will be a way... it is just not going to be revealed yet so who knows.

Still though who would not turn on their masters for juicy bacon treats and the added incentive to not be hit by torture devices?? Hmmm... Now I am wondering if there might just be a super loyal unit who cannot be scavanged/tortured into submission.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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I have a suggestion. Since nobody is really satisfied with most of the suggestions, how about we come up with a new word that doesn't exist in any dictionary and let the lore define it as "the thing that links you, the underlord to the dungoen and pumps life/evil essence into it"?
That way I think it's possible to find something that sounds good (a.k.a evil) and through the lore still evokes the feeling that you have to protect it with everything you have. Plus it could become something iconic that everyone relates to WftO.
Just my two cents...
 

Medjay

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I have a suggestion. Since nobody is really satisfied with most of the suggestions, how about we come up with a new word that doesn't exist in any dictionary and let the lore define it as "the thing that links you, the underlord to the dungoen and pumps life/evil essence into it"?
That way I think it's possible to find something that sounds good (a.k.a evil) and through the lore still evokes the feeling that you have to protect it with everything you have. Plus it could become something iconic that everyone relates to WftO.
Just my two cents...
Sounds good and possible, but do you think you could possibly give an example of what you had in mind?

Also, I made a list of all the suggested names here in case anyone wanted to see them all but hadn't seen the other forum post on the matter.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Sounds good and possible, but do you think you could possibly give an example of what you had in mind?

Also, I made a list of all the suggested names here in case anyone wanted to see them all but hadn't seen the other forum post on the matter.
Sorry I am not good at making up names. :(
But maybe there are other people on this forum who are.
 

Azrael

Bloodling
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Jan 5, 2013
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I'm somewhat tempted to suggest "most important Dungeon Thing", but that might get rather silly when it gets attacked.

The chunder looks puntastic, though.
 

Medjay

Shadow
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Aug 23, 2012
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For anyone who was interested in other possible names for the Dungeon Heart, here is a thread with a list of all the previously suggested names and an opportunity to vote for your top three and say why you like them.
 
Nov 6, 2012
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Nexus or Core don't really seem to fit it...If there's a problem with 'Dungeon Heart' why not call it something else like 'Underworld Heart' or 'Your heart, master'
 

Sebulon

Disciple
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Dec 30, 2012
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Nexus or Core don't really seem to fit it...If there's a problem with 'Dungeon Heart' why not call it something else like 'Underworld Heart' or 'Your heart, master'
As stated above it's not a copyright issue. It is the thing that heart won't fit to every dungeon headquarter because there are different themes.
 

azra

Warden
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Jan 18, 2013
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I'm not entirely sure why there should be an issue with having the word "heart" as a general term. I mean a "heart" doesn't have to be an organic blood-pumpy heart.
I mean the word "heart" just means the center or core of something, doesn't it?
 

Tommonius

Necromancer
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I'm not entirely sure why there should be an issue with having the word "heart" as a general term. I mean a "heart" doesn't have to be an organic blood-pumpy heart.
I mean the word "heart" just means the center or core of something, doesn't it?
well the word heart will always be known as our pumping muscle that keeps the blood flowing but as for the multiple differant themes that heart will not cover... we do not know exactly what they all will look like so we can only take the workd of the developers that heat is not a good catch all term, perhaps they intend to have an organic version but also other versions like mechanical or runic or whatever.

I suppose dungeon soul may be better term as no matter what the ____ will always need to be protected or have it destroyed and the dungeon with it.
 
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