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WFTO Wednesday #16

Tommonius

Necromancer
Backer
Dec 15, 2012
616
247
400
29
Wolverhampton
#81
No offense buddy but i'll choose DK 1 creature designs over WFTO creature designs in any given day.

Imma still support u guys thou
is that not because of the nostalgia factor though? I mean we have not seen them designed into the game yet, just some concept art.

and in any event I think he was refering to how the creatures act in the dungeons which at times was lacking, apparently they want more interaction with creatures.
 

Zomboden

Warden
Backer
Feb 5, 2012
70
13
175
USA
#82
No offense buddy but i'll choose DK 1 creature designs over WFTO creature designs in any given day.

Imma still support u guys thou
You would take a games design that used some of the most basic and generic magical creatures such as imp, spider, fly, beetle (I will give it they had some creative ones like the Bile Demon) over a game that is creating a new type of creature, and building it from the ground up to be unique and have its own profile & characteristics?
 

Tommonius

Necromancer
Backer
Dec 15, 2012
616
247
400
29
Wolverhampton
#83
You would take a games design that used some of the most basic and generic magical creatures such as imp, spider, fly, beetle (I will give it they had some creative ones like the Bile Demon) over a game that is creating a new type of creature, and building it from the ground up to be unique and have its own profile & characteristics?
also the Orc and Goblin was basicaly the same and merely a skin texture alteration, but yea many creatures were just sort of their and were quickly chucked back through the portal.

BUT their was some amazing creatured, Horned Reapers, Bile demons, Dark Mistress and the Vampires were VERY well done and so gosh darn memorable.
 

vin

Spirit
Backer
Dec 24, 2012
69
30
130
UK
#84
I thought this might be the be the case, but hell, just means the beta will be more polished when we get round to it. No point rushing it. Interesting new unit... could be a devastating enemy and a devestating loss if he died on your side...
 
Likes: fireheart47

Mozared

Juggernaut
Founder
Feb 17, 2013
1,132
836
520
28
#85
Yeah you're right. I was more referring to DK1 with this comment (specifically with abilities). The 'completeness' of characters was something that DK2 actually did a lot better, but many of them were lacking in charm. Many of them were trying to fill interesting roles but the execution just wasn't great.
Now I can see your point. I'll agree with that. DK2's "sim" aspect was fun but it got boring fast with the majority of minions either training, manufacturing/studying or praying, often in that particular order too as time went on.

If you really want the diversity I think you're insinuating, it'd be kickass if all WFTO minions lead more unique lives in your Dungeon. It seems very hard to pull off, but it'd be great if you really went for this. You'd need more monsters overall just as you have more rooms overall, and this would significantly deepen the game out. Tying into the Veins, you'd really feel like you had a choice and could specialize while all minions have their worth and you can aim to attain your favourite, whereas in the Dungeon Keeper it was really a case of A) going up a hierarchical ladder (from worthless to powerful minions) or B) rushing Dark Angels (in multiplayer). This would also make a 'my pet dungeon' far more interesting and engaging and dungeon management could be a simcity type of game in itself.

Did I understand you correctly this time around, is this your aim?
 

Simburgur

Managing Director
Dev Team
Nov 10, 2011
2,864
1,979
705
26
Brighton, UK
www.twitter.com
#86
Now I can see your point. I'll agree with that. DK2's "sim" aspect was fun but it got boring fast with the majority of minions either training, manufacturing/studying or praying, often in that particular order too as time went on.

If you really want the diversity I think you're insinuating, it'd be kickass if all WFTO minions lead more unique lives in your Dungeon. It seems very hard to pull off, but it'd be great if you really went for this. You'd need more monsters overall just as you have more rooms overall, and this would significantly deepen the game out. Tying into the Veins, you'd really feel like you had a choice and could specialize while all minions have their worth and you can aim to attain your favourite, whereas in the Dungeon Keeper it was really a case of A) going up a hierarchical ladder (from worthless to powerful minions) or B) rushing Dark Angels (in multiplayer). This would also make a 'my pet dungeon' far more interesting and engaging and dungeon management could be a simcity type of game in itself.

Did I understand you correctly this time around, is this your aim?
Pretty much. The Veins add player choice with real consequence to the game, allowing you to pick the rooms you want to build, which changes the minions you get, with the minions having enough mechanical depth and variance that your choices in the veins will have a significant impact on the battlefield, and it won't just be a race to get the uber units and train them to level 10.
 

RikudouPoshMal

Dwarven Worker
Backer
Feb 10, 2013
4
1
20
#87
Most units looks too cartoony or odd. They need to have units that fits DK theme (half serious, half funny but NOT cartoony).
First thing im going to do is farm imps into ghouls ...
Imps are magical creatures...made from mana. If they die, they 'evaporate'. You can't make ghouls out of zemmmm.
 

Castigator

Gargoyle
Backer
Dec 30, 2012
433
237
305
Germany
#88
DK1 had the exploit, that you could use imps to produce an ulimited quantity of vampires. Sadly, they were so expensive, that most dungeons wouldn't sustain more than 20 of them. You also needed 10 corpses per vampire, so the exploit was awesome, but impractical.
I'm curious about the necromancer, though. Besides the concept art, I really like the skillset, that allows him to carry his army of bodyguards with him. The thing, that won't add up for me is, that he seems to lack any damaging abilities, in case he has no ghouls, or skeletons, or whatever undead minion he can come up with. Does he have some kind of ranged attack?
The other thing is, if you have multiple necromancers, with many ghouls and one marks an enemy, will all the ghouls attack the marked enemy, even if they belong to a different master?
 

HermanK

Priestess
Backer
Mar 2, 2013
118
44
200
32
South Africa
#89
DK1 had the exploit, that you could use imps to produce an ulimited quantity of vampires. Sadly, they were so expensive, that most dungeons wouldn't sustain more than 20 of them. You also needed 10 corpses per vampire, so the exploit was awesome, but impractical.
talking about DK vampires, and i know this is off topic, but they really annoyed me - they had one of the best hand-to-hand melee damage but never used it because they would spam drain, which was useless (nothing worse than watching 2 vampires go at it).
 

Mozared

Juggernaut
Founder
Feb 17, 2013
1,132
836
520
28
#90
Pretty much. The Veins add player choice with real consequence to the game, allowing you to pick the rooms you want to build, which changes the minions you get, with the minions having enough mechanical depth and variance that your choices in the veins will have a significant impact on the battlefield, and it won't just be a race to get the uber units and train them to level 10.
I'm usually really hesitant about DK 'clones' changing the formula, but this sounds like a really good change. Me likey.

I wonder if, in a spin of irony, the entire game is going to end up sucking badly now that I'm seeing so many positive things :p

Imps are magical creatures...made from mana. If they die, they 'evaporate'. You can't make ghouls out of zemmmm.
Their legs aren't magical; they often remain behind when a DK2 Imp is killed :p
 

Evi

Witch Doctor
Backer
Nov 14, 2011
665
372
445
26
#91
Pretty much. The Veins add player choice with real consequence to the game, allowing you to pick the rooms you want to build, which changes the minions you get, with the minions having enough mechanical depth and variance that your choices in the veins will have a significant impact on the battlefield, and it won't just be a race to get the uber units and train them to level 10.
I would assume in the Sandbox/Pet Dungeon mode, you can make whatever room you wish without limits of these veins?
 

Simburgur

Managing Director
Dev Team
Nov 10, 2011
2,864
1,979
705
26
Brighton, UK
www.twitter.com
#92
I would assume in the Sandbox/Pet Dungeon mode, you can make whatever room you wish without limits of these veins?
Yes, or we would probably have it so there's a button that will unlock everything instantly. There are situations where a player may want to test things to do with research, so having them unlocked by default might not be the best idea.
 

Ben Chandler

Impassibly Cool
Backer
Jan 23, 2013
311
87
275
#93
I'm curious about the necromancer, though. Besides the concept art, I really like the skillset, that allows him to carry his army of bodyguards with him. The thing, that won't add up for me is, that he seems to lack any damaging abilities, in case he has no ghouls, or skeletons, or whatever undead minion he can come up with. Does he have some kind of ranged attack?
The other thing is, if you have multiple necromancers, with many ghouls and one marks an enemy, will all the ghouls attack the marked enemy, even if they belong to a different master?
I was concerned about the same thing... I love the concept, but without any offensive capabilities he's kind of just a hub for ghouls!
 

Noontide

Award Winning Community Manager
Dev Team
Dec 8, 2012
2,101
1,760
700
Brighton, UK
#94
I was concerned about the same thing... I love the concept, but without any offensive capabilities he's kind of just a hub for ghouls!
The necromancer will have a basic ranged attack much like the cultist however his abilities are built to cater to fighting with raised creatures, so I wouldn't imagine this attack would be the most powerful in the world :)
 

theMarg0r

Dryad
Backer
Dec 28, 2012
871
377
385
Under a killing Spoon
#98
Haha, I looked at the Necromancer artwork again, and I JUST realized - that's not literally his lower jaw, it's something he attached to the front of his robe, like a collar, or a very high up breastplate.
 

thefinn

Bloodling
Backer
Dec 30, 2012
43
21
60
48
#99
No offense buddy but i'll choose DK 1 creature designs over WFTO creature designs in any given day.

Imma still support u guys thou
I kinda agree at present, I think they trying to be a little too original and not quite making the mark.

Prefer some vanilla high fantasy that will work for the standard game and release packs later with the more off the wall stuff (like the chunder).
 

Evence

Ghoul
Backer
Jan 4, 2013
17
3
95
26
Santa Cruz, California
I kinda agree at present, I think they trying to be a little too original and not quite making the mark.

Prefer some vanilla high fantasy that will work for the standard game and release packs later with the more off the wall stuff (like the chunder).
thats just boring though.. playing it safe and being completely unoriginal would be pointless =/
 
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