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WFTO Wednesday #43: Two Spooky Four You

Simburgur

Managing Director
Brightrock Games
Nov 10, 2011
2,864
1,979
670
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Brighton, UK
www.twitter.com
#21
But i have a question concerning the crypt! After some corpses were placed in the soul pyres i increased the size of the room, which rearanged the location of the pyres! After that all corpses were gone and no fires in the pyres! (rhyme) :D
Is that intentional or will that be fixed?
Also to work properly, especially when you havent the summon blood imp spell i think the corpses should last longer.
I played on my little dungeon and over half of all corpses simply vanished!
Both of these things are being looked at :)
 

Ben Chandler

Impassibly Cool
WFTO Backer
Jan 23, 2013
311
87
310
#23
in the example pic of the crypt in this update, i noticed that a few random undug bits of wall were left in. I personally love that kind of look especially for a crypt and was wandering if we're going to have similar "efficiency" mechanics like in the dk franchise which didnt really allow for this, or will there be more freedom?
 

Mozared

Juggernaut
WFTO Founder
Feb 17, 2013
1,132
836
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#24
in the example pic of the crypt in this update, i noticed that a few random undug bits of wall were left in. I personally love that kind of look especially for a crypt and was wandering if we're going to have similar "efficiency" mechanics like in the dk franchise which didnt really allow for this, or will there be more freedom?
Shamefully, an effect like this is impossible to achieve without radically changing the entire genre of the game. If we designed a room in such a way that the most efficient way to build it would be as demonstrated by your picture, the room would be A) completely counter-intuitive and B) massively overpowered - the room would be efficient in a 1X12 set-up which kind of ruins the whole 'dungeon' part of the 'dungeon management' genre as everybody would just dig out small 1-tile halls and fill those up with rooms. Unless you give up the concept of having 'rooms' altogether, you're always stuck to certain requirements that prevent 'prettification' from being effective. That's not to say it'll never happen, though; the screenshot you posted is a prime example of the kind of stuff you'll see in campaign levels (but also some multiplayer levels with neutral hero dungeons).
 

Ben Chandler

Impassibly Cool
WFTO Backer
Jan 23, 2013
311
87
310
#25
ok thank you...
... but will creatures for example train faster or something in a uniform 5x5 barracks or is it purely a matter of how many props (i.e. training dummies) are available for use. -
- or what benefit, other than most efficient use of space, will you gain from having uniform room designs?
 

AvatarIII

Ember Demon
WFTO Founder
Apr 20, 2012
1,713
759
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Worthing, West Sussex
#26
Shamefully, an effect like this is impossible to achieve without radically changing the entire genre of the game. If we designed a room in such a way that the most efficient way to build it would be as demonstrated by your picture, the room would be A) completely counter-intuitive and B) massively overpowered - the room would be efficient in a 1X12 set-up which kind of ruins the whole 'dungeon' part of the 'dungeon management' genre as everybody would just dig out small 1-tile halls and fill those up with rooms. Unless you give up the concept of having 'rooms' altogether, you're always stuck to certain requirements that prevent 'prettification' from being effective. That's not to say it'll never happen, though; the screenshot you posted is a prime example of the kind of stuff you'll see in campaign levels (but also some multiplayer levels with neutral hero dungeons).
Moz, I was thinking, if a single wall tile was something like 1/20 as efficient as a room prop, it would still favour big rooms, but would simply reduce the penalty of small rooms, 1x9 would have 0.6 prop equivalent, 3x3 with 2 doors would have 1.5, 1x25 would have 2.5, 5x5 with 4 doors would have 4.8, having a pillar instead of a prop is a sacrifice of 0.8 props instead of 1 for one less expensive room tile, having a notch in the wall would be a boost of 0.15 for one extra room tile, big square rooms would still be preferable, but non square rooms would be less penalised.
 
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Likes: Lord of Riva

Lord of Riva

The Lord
WFTO Founder
Dec 29, 2012
2,786
923
540
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#27
Moz, I was thinking, if a single wall tile was something like 1/20 as efficient as a room prop, it would still favour big rooms, but would simply reduce the penalty of small rooms, 1x9 would have 0.6 prop equivalent, 3x3 with 2 does would have 1.5, 1x25 would have 2.5, 5x5 with 4 doors would have 4.8, having a pillar instead of a prop is a sacrifice of 0.8 props instead of 1 for one less expensive room tile, having a notch in the wall would be a boost of 0.15 for one extra room tile, big square rooms would still be preferable, but non square rooms would be less penalised.
truly interesting concept :D

still in the old efficiency system (like in the old DMGs) you get a bonus for fortified walls right? this is something that always bugged me if you have a Dungeon design with lets say the Lair at the heart. you would have a room (5x5 in size) with 4 ways into other rooms as connector. in this example the lair is used as a hub since every creature can go to the necessary rooms as fast as possible (like slaughterpen, barracks, archives and treasury).

but on the same time the lair loses efficiency, since it would have four tunnels going away from it. So i would suggest taking into account that in most dungeon designs many rooms have at least two doors (tunnels) sometimes even four so it shouldnt handicap the room efficiency
 

AvatarIII

Ember Demon
WFTO Founder
Apr 20, 2012
1,713
759
555
35
Worthing, West Sussex
#28
truly interesting concept :D

still in the old efficiency system (like in the old DMGs) you get a bonus for fortified walls right? this is something that always bugged me if you have a Dungeon design with lets say the Lair at the heart. you would have a room (5x5 in size) with 4 ways into other rooms as connector. in this example the lair is used as a hub since every creature can go to the necessary rooms as fast as possible (like slaughterpen, barracks, archives and treasury).

but on the same time the lair loses efficiency, since it would have four tunnels going away from it. So i would suggest taking into account that in most dungeon designs many rooms have at least two doors (tunnels) sometimes even four so it shouldnt handicap the room efficiency
well in my calculations I took having doors into account, however it wouldn't really be a handicap, since having fewer doors means an easier to invade dungeon, so you'd have to decide whether you want that tiny bit more efficiency or a harder to navigate dungeon for invaders. also you could have your rooms expanding out into doorways for a little boost, (having 2/4 doorways filled with room tiles per room would make the efficiency almost that of a door less room) however that would mean you couldn't have doors in the same doorways for example, so it would be apples and oranges.

However saying that, having doorways is not a handicap because each single wall tile would be pretty negligibly useful at 1/20th of a prop per wall, and it is still better than having no walls at all.
 
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