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WFTO Wednesday #52: Super Units

Tommonius

Necromancer
WFTO Backer
Dec 15, 2012
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Wolverhampton
#21
This... was not what I expected and cudos to you good sirrs for stunning me YET AGAIN! Bit of a wall of text but seeing as we got 3 reveals I hope all you Underlords forgive me (and if not I will see you all on the battlefield!)

Seriously I was expecting a dark armored figure and some kind of caster and something else like a shadowy assassin, basically humans that have been boosted but you guys went whole hog and showed us just what Humans can evolve into if they put enough faith, evil and effort into this (chaos in 40k approves of these ascensions to new forms)

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the Eternal, when I saw the fire elemental who is summoned like a trap, I just knew eventually we would get some kind of rocky smashy large unit and you gave us an actual unit and not only that a super unit and I will certainly keep a crack team of cultists around to make damn sure I get one of those every time. No one sneaks up on my dungeon core and breaks it when I got one of these bad boys buffing my core and soldiers!

By the Way the Behemoth looks frankly fantastic, it looks like a wrecking ball of muscle and tusks and is very powerful as needed and yet has some draw backs to balance it and I find it interesting it is so damn big and heavy the hand of evil cannot pick it up, how tall are they in game? about 7 or 8 feet maybe?

The eternal really does look solid and sounds very intelligent and what I like about it is that the Cultist does not get to be one, they are sacrificed to get these to arrive in the dungeon (sorry cultist should of picked a different vein of evil and different master) How big are they and how much do these Eternal's weigh?

I think the Archon is the strongest of the 3 of them to be honest even though each one has great utility, it looks great and probably would be the one ALL cultists want to become as frankly its auto attacks stun enemies so unless there are loads of enemies or some immune to stun lying around this thing will eat through most enemies it finds wondering around and it focusing on enemy elite units in the middle of battle and keeping them perma stunned while damaging is immensely good to me, but then they destroyed a god and took its powers so yea Archons are not to be messed with.

Loved the update seeing as we got 3 reveals and now we know there is a building to be revealed, besides the Sanctuary are there any other units left and buildings to be revealed besides Vampires? Even if you cannot tell us there names a simple yes or no would be cool as I genuinely think with all the minions revealed so far we have got a fairly diverse selection.

I guess there may be a few more empire units and a couple of there buildings and maybe a few neutral units and then I guess that is all?
 
Likes: Sangromancer
Sep 20, 2013
107
50
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Parts Unknown
#22
Interesting update... I think the behemoth is pretty powerful. If the game bases it's combat like in that other dungeon management game then the Behemoth could be a good blocker unit, a solid wall. You can win the battle if you have a behemoth while fighting in a tight corridor. I am curious how we will obtain these creature and what role they will play. Do you guys think they are an endgame solution such as the experimental units from Supreme Commander?
 

Nutter

Frost Weaver
WFTO Founder
Jan 19, 2013
2,453
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615
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Huddersfield, UK
nutter666.tumblr.com
#23
Love the Behemoth... fits the wrath theme perfectly and looks great.

The Eternal, it looks a little dull being plain stone.. I think it might look better with some glowing runes or magical markings on it's body and some kind of magical energy/electrical effect holding the stone parts together and maybe pulsing slightly as it generates mana and buffs the core's power.

As for the Archon, I can't help thinking that whilst it looks great from a design point of view,this is the weakest of the concepts from a thematic/mechanic point of view. What does stunning really have to do with Greed? That's more fitting for sloth. I mean I know he does buff all the combat stats and that's kind of greed. But surely something like it causing enemies to explode in a shower of gold coins once killed (which your imps can then collect) or passively generating souls, or even just increasing the amount of experience units receive when defeating enemies within it's aura are all more fitting for the Greed Vein.
 

Simburgur

Managing Director
Brightrock Games
Nov 10, 2011
2,864
1,979
725
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Brighton, UK
www.twitter.com
#24
As for the Archon, I can't help thinking that whilst it looks great from a design point of view,this is the weakest of the concepts from a thematic/mechanic point of view. What does stunning really have to do with Greed? That's more fitting for sloth. I mean I know he does buff all the combat stats and that's kind of greed. But surely something like it causing enemies to explode in a shower of gold coins once killed (which your imps can then collect) or passively generating souls, or even just increasing the amount of experience units receive when defeating enemies within it's aura are all more fitting for the Greed Vein.
Greed is all about the long game and force multiplication.

Stuns on their own aren't that powerful, but with an entire army? It becomes more and more useful for every unit you have (as does everything else the Archon does). Of the 3, it has the potential to have the biggest impact on the game if used correctly, and the smallest if used poorly.
 

Thypari

Disciple
May 9, 2013
24
7
145
#25
I hope the Super Units have a time restrain, so you have to carefully think about when to "summon" one and not just anybody has one walking around the dungeons.
 

Mozared

Juggernaut
WFTO Founder
Feb 17, 2013
1,132
836
520
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#26
By the Way the Behemoth looks frankly fantastic, it looks like a wrecking ball of muscle and tusks and is very powerful as needed and yet has some draw backs to balance it and I find it interesting it is so damn big and heavy the hand of evil cannot pick it up, how tall are they in game? about 7 or 8 feet maybe?
While it's subject to change, imagine all of them about the size of a square. Gameplay-wise they need to fit on a single square and as such that's the largest they could be.

Loved the update seeing as we got 3 reveals and now we know there is a building to be revealed, besides the Sanctuary are there any other units left and buildings to be revealed besides Vampires? Even if you cannot tell us there names a simple yes or no would be cool as I genuinely think with all the minions revealed so far we have got a fairly diverse selection.
There's still plenty to come. We haven't revealed everything in a single category of 'stuff' yet - there's units to come as well as rooms, defences, spells, shrines, etc.
 
Likes: Tommonius

Tommonius

Necromancer
WFTO Backer
Dec 15, 2012
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Wolverhampton
#27
There's still plenty to come. We haven't revealed everything in a single category of 'stuff' yet - there's units to come as well as rooms, defences, spells, shrines, etc.
huzzah!

We got these super units and The Vampire is meant to ba a major late game player and there is the horror we summon from a shrine so all in all seems we got a great late game set up, cannot wait for more reveals... yea greed player here always moar! :rolleyes:

I understand there are technical limitations with units needing one square and all but it does seem a shame the Behemoth is not large and in charge so to speak, but then that easter egg micro-pig enemy we find on that one level did look fairly big (and come to think of it sort of foreshadows a demonic ganondorf like enemy charging through enemy lines)

I would love to see a Micropiglet trying to bar its path for some reason, dunno why just a thought that will not leave my mind.

Greed is all about the long game and force multiplication.

Stuns on their own aren't that powerful, but with an entire army? It becomes more and more useful for every unit you have (as does everything else the Archon does). Of the 3, it has the potential to have the biggest impact on the game if used correctly, and the smallest if used poorly.
Yea some where in my wall of text I noted this guy is a gamehcanger and has massive utility not in raw power but in what he can do for boosting the effectiveness of your army and weakening the enemies, that Augre punting my Chunder's away? yea that guy is being stunlocked and constantly taking damage by the Archon while the Chunder face hammer the sucker in the kneecaps.

That soon to be released Vampire trying to drain my Succubi, not so fast I say!

..

unless Vampire proove to be immune to stun of course.
 
Likes: Sangromancer

Tommonius

Necromancer
WFTO Backer
Dec 15, 2012
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Wolverhampton
#28
I hope the Super Units have a time restrain, so you have to carefully think about when to "summon" one and not just anybody has one walking around the dungeons.
You got to get a Cultist to level 10 first and if I recall training rooms only go so far then you need to do it the hard way by fighting, not sure if there is a combat pit for more levels but even so it takes time and effort and if say the last two levels have to be done manually it would be fairly easy for an enemy player to focus some burst damage so the Cultists never get that opportunity to be max level.
 
Nov 13, 2013
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#29
I think the Archon is the strongest of the 3 of them to be honest even though each one has great utility, it looks great and probably would be the one ALL cultists want to become as frankly its auto attacks stun enemies so unless there are loads of enemies or some immune to stun lying around this thing will eat through most enemies it finds wondering around and it focusing on enemy elite units in the middle of battle and keeping them perma stunned while damaging is immensely good to me, but then they destroyed a god and took its powers so yea Archons are not to be messed with.
Well all the elite units have immunity to crowd control which I think includes stunning. I actually like this since I don't think it would feel very good if Behemoths and Eternals would lose 1v1 with the Archon without any way to fight back. And them Archon vs. Archon fights would be silly since whoever got off the first shot would win.( of course 1v1 elite fights would likely be very rare, your going to have an army beyond elites or your in big trouble, but still)

I am curious, do the succubus's ability to charm opponents into not hurting her count as CC? When I look at the ability description I don't think it does but I still think it would be pretty silly for creatures like the Archon,Eternal, and Behemoth to care about the Succubi's charms.
 
Likes: Tommonius

Varis

Templar
Nov 8, 2013
145
153
235
Finland
#30
Behemoth has nice head, but his torso and neck are way too thin and unmuscular if the character is supposed to look like a bulldozer-like demon. The bone plates on the back look like an oversized ornamental hump as there isn't massive muscles on the shoulders and neck that they would be protecting.
 

Enjou

Ember Demon
WFTO Backer
Jan 10, 2012
1,315
785
545
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#31
I hope the Super Units have a time restrain, so you have to carefully think about when to "summon" one and not just anybody has one walking around the dungeons.
Keep in mind that they are late game units - you have to max out one of the Veins of Evil and have a Cultist trained to max level. In a multiplayer game by the time you reach this point you are very likely ready to bring the conflict to its end, and if the other side isn't about ready with their own super unit by that point then the time restraint isn't going to matter much since they are likely to be attacked soon anyways.
 

Nutter

Frost Weaver
WFTO Founder
Jan 19, 2013
2,453
1,092
615
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Huddersfield, UK
nutter666.tumblr.com
#32
Greed is all about the long game and force multiplication.

Stuns on their own aren't that powerful, but with an entire army? It becomes more and more useful for every unit you have (as does everything else the Archon does). Of the 3, it has the potential to have the biggest impact on the game if used correctly, and the smallest if used poorly.
Ooh! I got a reply from Sim himself :D *feels slightly special*

Ahhh I see, so he's more of a steamroller/momentum unit. Yeah that certainly is greed, I guess I didn't read/understand it properly the first time.

On another note; getting back to The Eternal's appearance...

eternal_design.png



That's the kind of thing I was talking about in my previous post. Personally I think it makes the unit look a lot more like a living breathing unit, something that is actually alive. Obviously the Green colour would either be replaced with whatever colour Mana is, the player's chosen colour or whichever colour is more fitting for Greed (I chose green since that's what the current underlord is using)
 
May 22, 2013
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Netherlands
#33
Ooh! I got a reply from Sim himself :D *feels slightly special*
On another note; getting back to The Eternal's appearance...

View attachment 2638


That's the kind of thing I was talking about in my previous post. Personally I think it makes the unit look a lot more like a living breathing unit, something that is actually alive. Obviously the Green colour would either be replaced with whatever colour Mana is, the player's chosen colour or whichever colour is more fitting for Greed (I chose green since that's what the current underlord is using)
Dev's please
 
Likes: Tommonius

Bobby Rebholz

Concept Artist
Apr 2, 2013
117
93
245
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Cincinnati, Ohio
www.facebook.com
#34
I'm glad you all like the units. One thing to keep in mind is that, when looking at the creatures, you see the bulk of the body alone. Once in game, you will be able to see different effects around it which will really bring them to life. Take for instance the Eternal. The body you see is, well, just the body. You will be able to see the Eternal in all it's glory once the magic surrounds it.
 

Tommonius

Necromancer
WFTO Backer
Dec 15, 2012
616
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Wolverhampton
#35
Well all the elite units have immunity to crowd control which I think includes stunning. I actually like this since I don't think it would feel very good if Behemoths and Eternals would lose 1v1 with the Archon without any way to fight back. And them Archon vs. Archon fights would be silly since whoever got off the first shot would win.( of course 1v1 elite fights would likely be very rare, your going to have an army beyond elites or your in big trouble, but still)

I am curious, do the succubus's ability to charm opponents into not hurting her count as CC? When I look at the ability description I don't think it does but I still think it would be pretty silly for creatures like the Archon,Eternal, and Behemoth to care about the Succubi's charms.
I reckon the Succubi does count as CC myself though we need confirmation on it, the Archon using perma stun is interesting while we have one unit which is a siege breaker and another that is a walking tank that also buffs nearby allies and even the dungeon core, all in all they are pretty damn versatile, wonder if there will be a number limit on them or indeed if we can only unlock one of the 3.

I'm glad you all like the units. One thing to keep in mind is that, when looking at the creatures, you see the bulk of the body alone. Once in game, you will be able to see different effects around it which will really bring them to life. Take for instance the Eternal. The body you see is, well, just the body. You will be able to see the Eternal in all it's glory once the magic surrounds it.
Awesome, I am biased as I like rock golems but I must admit the slight adding of the green touch up that nutter666 added did look good as it sort of looks like moss growing on a giant and ancient statue.
 
Nov 13, 2013
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#36
I reckon the Succubi does count as CC myself though we need confirmation on it, the Archon using perma stun is interesting while we have one unit which is a siege breaker and another that is a walking tank that also buffs nearby allies and even the dungeon core, all in all they are pretty damn versatile, wonder if there will be a number limit on them or indeed if we can only unlock one of the 3.
There is a limit the page on them says "you’ll only be able to command a single super unit at any one time." So you can only have one archon and if you have an archon them you can't have any behemoths or eternals. I don't think someone should be limited from unlocking all of them since unlocking more than one just means that when your archon or whatever you have dies than you can replace them with a different super unit. So if say the eternal you had is no longer useful and it dies than you can get a behemoth instead of another eternal.

Something I was wondering is that one idea that was running around is that the powerful creatures in WFTO would be very strong but difficult to maintain. These creatures are pretty powerful difficult to acquire but I don't see anything that makes them difficult to maintain. Will we simply put the difficult to maintain aspect into the other power creatures like vampire? or are there unrevealed aspects of these super units?

Also, I has an evil idea for a campaign map. You, the player vs 3 underlords (hard). EACH underlord has a super unit at the beginning of the game, along with a reasonably done dungeon. one dungeon lord has a behemoth and is very aggressive, another has an eternal and has a dungeon full of high level traps, and the third has an archon and has an all around balanced dungeon and strategy. You begin in the center of the map, surrounded. This would be pretty close to the end of the game but not THE end because I think that is already taken as you assaulting the heroes capitol or something similar. The point of this mission is to make the player throw his computer out the window. :D
 

Tommonius

Necromancer
WFTO Backer
Dec 15, 2012
616
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Wolverhampton
#37
Also, I has an evil idea for a campaign map. You, the player vs 3 underlords (hard). EACH underlord has a super unit at the beginning of the game, along with a reasonably done dungeon. one dungeon lord has a behemoth and is very aggressive, another has an eternal and has a dungeon full of high level traps, and the third has an archon and has an all around balanced dungeon and strategy. You begin in the center of the map, surrounded. This would be pretty close to the end of the game but not THE end because I think that is already taken as you assaulting the heroes capitol or something similar. The point of this mission is to make the player throw his computer out the window. :D

I love those missions, you get a real sense of accomplishment when you complete it, in DK1 there is a level where you start off with 2 Horned reapers and I creature transfer a 3rd on in and the enemy computer ahas a lv 10 Orc. The enemy has a god damn nasty habit of letting the heroes in and both dungeons are connected with a tunnel and has some traps and a couple of doors... which does very little to keep the very high level heroes out.

That map is so damn hard the best I could do was hope the heroes nuked the comps dungeon so I could win by default (paethetic for a keeper I know)

I also love the Deeper dungeons expansion where you have an improved AI and seriosuly challenging maps, having what you suggest as part of a hard mode map pack expansion would be great but not so great in main play as casual players might really throw there computers up the wall in rage mode :mad:
 

Simburgur

Managing Director
Brightrock Games
Nov 10, 2011
2,864
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Brighton, UK
www.twitter.com
#38
Ooh! I got a reply from Sim himself :D *feels slightly special*

Ahhh I see, so he's more of a steamroller/momentum unit. Yeah that certainly is greed, I guess I didn't read/understand it properly the first time.

On another note; getting back to The Eternal's appearance...

View attachment 2638


That's the kind of thing I was talking about in my previous post. Personally I think it makes the unit look a lot more like a living breathing unit, something that is actually alive. Obviously the Green colour would either be replaced with whatever colour Mana is, the player's chosen colour or whichever colour is more fitting for Greed (I chose green since that's what the current underlord is using)
That is actually similar to what it will look like in-game, but it'll most likely be a shade of blue.

Edit: Confirming that Succubi cannot charm super units, that would just be OP :)
 
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