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WFTO Wednesday #52: Super Units

Ben Chandler

Impassibly Cool
WFTO Backer
Jan 23, 2013
311
87
275
#61
Regarding their pay-day; the way i like to see it, is, they are supreme beings that transcend the mortal world. while they have physical form, they are not strictly of this world and are around because the cultist (or underlord who owns the cultist) is sufficiently powerful enough to be worthy of summoning them.
they don't then need pay, because its none of their interest.
greed can come in many more ways than purely financial gain. look at faust's greed for fame and power.
 

Underlord Vulukai

Witch Doctor
WFTO Backer
Mar 11, 2013
666
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The Void
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#62
Possession: Note the severe lack of active abilities. You purposefully won't be able to have a huge impact when possessing.
hmm, looking at what abilities these 3 still have as being passive, you still gain quite a few benefits even when possessed. I think out of the three the Archon gets the least benefit through possession due to the sentinels not spawning. Behemoth probably the most because of the passive health regen and attack against defenses. My require some nerfing for possession mode of the Behemoth in particular due to the ability to dodge around and the regen being normally balanced around a non possessed behemoth being constantly smacked upon by multiple damage sources. Im interested to see how the balance evolves for these three super units (and seeing how incredibly broken they are when they first come out, since its bound to happen at least the first little bit hehe)
 
Nov 13, 2013
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#63
hmm, looking at what abilities these 3 still have as being passive, you still gain quite a few benefits even when possessed. I think out of the three the Archon gets the least benefit through possession due to the sentinels not spawning. Behemoth probably the most because of the passive health regen and attack against defenses. My require some nerfing for possession mode of the Behemoth in particular due to the ability to dodge around and the regen being normally balanced around a non possessed behemoth being constantly smacked upon by multiple damage sources. Im interested to see how the balance evolves for these three super units (and seeing how incredibly broken they are when they first come out, since its bound to happen at least the first little bit hehe)
Well this needs devs conformation, but I read somewhere that possession could drain mana while it is active. If we could adjust this based on the possessed unit then we could ramp up the drain when using super units to limit how long players can (ab)use possession on them.
Why would the archon's sentinel not function when the archon is possessed? Seems to me he could have a good deal of power from possession since you could focus his stuns on high priority targets.
 

Xadrow

Disciple
Oct 26, 2012
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8
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Belgium
#64
As much as i like Anubis, I believe the Dungeon Keeper Online had concept art of something similar. On the topic of DKO, is it even getting made? Announced in 2008, I know it will be shit but it doesn't take that long to make does it?
I thought it was online getting asian releases, mainly China and Malaysia
 
Jan 3, 2014
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#65
Hi guys new to the forum, been meaning to join for a while and I must say the idea of upgrading your units is making this game superb can't wait for more developments
 

Mozared

Juggernaut
WFTO Founder
Feb 17, 2013
1,132
836
520
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#66
Hi guys new to the forum, been meaning to join for a while and I must say the idea of upgrading your units is making this game superb can't wait for more developments
Welcome, thanks for joining in and the kind words :)

We've got more coming soon!
 

Underlord Vulukai

Witch Doctor
WFTO Backer
Mar 11, 2013
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The Void
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#68
Well this needs devs conformation, but I read somewhere that possession could drain mana while it is active. If we could adjust this based on the possessed unit then we could ramp up the drain when using super units to limit how long players can (ab)use possession on them.
Why would the archon's sentinel not function when the archon is possessed? Seems to me he could have a good deal of power from possession since you could focus his stuns on high priority targets.
the act of creating new sentinels out of fallen enemies is listed as an active ability. As Sim stated earlier in the thread, we will not be able to use actives while in possession. If mana is indeed constantly drained while possessing, i think an increased drain would definitely be a good way to maintain balance, or, in the even that mana isn't used with possession, imposing it on the super units may work. the only problem i see with this is the Eternals passive constantly generating mana, which could theoretically counteract your mana drain unless the drain is ridiculous.

TL:DR version: gon need balance and stuffz
 
Nov 13, 2013
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#69
the act of creating new sentinels out of fallen enemies is listed as an active ability. As Sim stated earlier in the thread, we will not be able to use actives while in possession. If mana is indeed constantly drained while possessing, i think an increased drain would definitely be a good way to maintain balance, or, in the even that mana isn't used with possession, imposing it on the super units may work. the only problem i see with this is the Eternals passive constantly generating mana, which could theoretically counteract your mana drain unless the drain is ridiculous.

TL:DR version: gon need balance and stuffz

Possession: Note the severe lack of active abilities. You purposefully won't be able to have a huge impact when possessing.
I think sim will need to confirm, but I read this not as " you can't use active abilities while possessing" but as " we deliberately designed elites in such a manner that they will not gain a significant performance increase while possessed"

I read in a thread about mana regineration that there will (or is, not sure) be a delay after you cast a spell before your mana starts regenerating. This prevents players who get a huge mana regen from being able to spam spells indefinatly do to regenerating faster than he can spend. If possessions count as channeling a spell than the regen delay should prevent mana from regenerating during possession, rendering the regen boost from the eternal meaningless to possession. Also, even if regen happened during possession, I am sure the devs would have the sense not to make the eternals regen boost higher than possession drain :D
 

Simburgur

Managing Director
Brightrock Games
Nov 10, 2011
2,864
1,979
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Brighton, UK
www.twitter.com
#70
I think sim will need to confirm, but I read this not as " you can't use active abilities while possessing" but as " we deliberately designed elites in such a manner that they will not gain a significant performance increase while possessed"
This is correct.

Also the Reaper of Souls ability is likely to mechanically behave as a passive as opposed to an active, so you'll only have basic attacks when possessing an Archon.
 

Underlord Vulukai

Witch Doctor
WFTO Backer
Mar 11, 2013
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The Void
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#71
This is correct.

Also the Reaper of Souls ability is likely to mechanically behave as a passive as opposed to an active, so you'll only have basic attacks when possessing an Archon.
ah, i misunderstood but thanks for clearing that up :D

I read in a thread about mana regineration that there will (or is, not sure) be a delay after you cast a spell before your mana starts regenerating. This prevents players who get a huge mana regen from being able to spam spells indefinatly do to regenerating faster than he can spend. If possessions count as channeling a spell than the regen delay should prevent mana from regenerating during possession, rendering the regen boost from the eternal meaningless to possession. Also, even if regen happened during possession, I am sure the devs would have the sense not to make the eternals regen boost higher than possession drain :D
if this will be (or is) the case, then id like to also propose that the regeneration mechanic work similarly to the system in terraria, where the lower your current mana rating is, the slower the regen rate is. I.E. spamming a bunch of spells will cause a slow, parabolic build up until you are regenerating much faster the last half of your over all pool, but using spells strategically you would regenerate quite quickly if you took the time to plan out your strikes after the global cooldown
 
Oct 17, 2013
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#72
All these designs are great, and the game changing mechanics all sound like a ton of fun. The Archon is easily my favorite, both aesthetically, and mechanically. Although, I'm also curious. Will there be mechanics that make Super Units harder to maintain?




Also, why Anubis. Not only is he overexposed, but he isn't even an evil god. Set's the Egyptian god of evil, and chaos. Why not him?
Chose Anubis not cuz of what is he is, just for his looks. Cuz I really dont like the Eternal's looks. It's too plain looking.

If you're going to go with something rock-like, here's how I'd do it
 
Nov 13, 2013
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#75
What you see is the base structure for the characters. In game, different effects will be added where necessary. The Eternal has no moving parts hence the static pose. His magic alone is what destroys you.
That sounds like an awesome idea. That is a pretty great way to show his reality warping powers that were stated in lore :D
 

Sangromancer

Bafu
WFTO Backer
Feb 3, 2013
189
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Innistrad
#76
Brilliant update guys! I personally like the Archon the best (He resonates really well with the undead theme of the greed vein). I really enjoy where all the veins lead though (Unstoppable demon beast and the lord of fortifications)!
 
Nov 3, 2013
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#77
My one worry with possessing them is that it may make it too easy for a Behemoth or Eternal to close in on an Archon - that can be a huge impact since the Archon wouldn't outlast either of them. The other player would have to be on the watch for it so they could move out of the way, or the Archon's AI could be good enough to try to move back if attacked like this.
Same concern here. Perhaps if the Archon were a little more difficult to close in on, e.g. teleporting, it'd work.
 
Feb 21, 2014
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Russian Federation, Moscow.
#78
Behemoth....owesome unit. Big,mussle,strong,quick.
He is the only who can break simple door "wooden"(steel if it will be) from the run.
I would like that.



I thinkl that Eternal will be a great replacement(alternative) of a "Stone Knights" from 20 level of DK2.
Something like this....
By the ancient power of druids, ther magic of good....
Goodly heroes gathered the remains of the stone knights and created the strong stone guard...named as Eternal.
and bla bla bla.....
Underlord will smasm everyone in his WFTO :)

Archon, fo me he is some kind of a "Dark Angel" from DK2. Strong but something missing....
 
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mishko

Witch Doctor
WFTO Founder
Feb 27, 2012
866
238
440
25
Michigan
#79
Even though they are "Super Units", I still would like them to have creature needs of their own, And have a high upkeep to keep them happy. I want the Behemoth to require a Lot of pigs (or people to consume) to keep it happy. And the Archon to require a lot of gold. I do not know what I would suggest to keep an Eternal happy however.....
 
May 22, 2013
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Netherlands
#80
Even though they are "Super Units", I still would like them to have creature needs of their own, And have a high upkeep to keep them happy. I want the Behemoth to require a Lot of pigs (or people to consume) to keep it happy. And the Archon to require a lot of gold. I do not know what I would suggest to keep an Eternal happy however.....
Eternal is from sloth and he is a big pile of rock
So I guess he wants his own separate Archive and lair (den was it called?) or something?
 
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