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WFTO Wednesday #58: The Crackpot & The Cook

Jan 7, 2012
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#21
While I cant understand how everybody totally accepts this horrendous design choice, I am wondering why the potions needed to be implemented.
They just act like spells, but with the difference of being exclusive to one room....
Why didnt you just put the potion effects as spells/rituals in whatever vein seemed apprporiate?
I firstly thougt creatures would use potions on their own, but as underlord articles they dont seem to make much sense.
DK used spells n traps as player controlled products of room investment. That was simple, fast and worked.

Why we need spells, defences, potions, rituals and whatever category of tool I didnt thought of in this game is beyond me,
for the various effects are not even specific for their category:

When we think of defences we think of damage and hinderance, not of terrain manipulation (underminer)
When we think of potions we think of positive buffs for the living, not of necromancy (spirit workers...)
Spells stand for every kind of shit, terrain manipulation, necromancy, clairvoyance and what not....
Rituals seem at least a bit more special and worthy of their own category as the rest I listed above.

What led to the decision of using so many different categorys without even giving them specifically habits other than the vein theyre in?
Thats way more irritating than 10 level caps and prison babysitting.
 
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Feb 10, 2014
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#22
It sounds horrendous because you're trying to make sense of all these concepts coming together in your head. To be able to form a proper opinion on how this will flow with the rest of the game, we would have to see it get implemented first. Don't be so hasty to say "this will freaking suck" when you can't even use it yet.
 
Likes: theHword

Psycix

Dryad
WFTO Founder
Jan 9, 2013
834
305
395
#23
I am semi-sceptical, but I have faith in the WFTO team to tune it if necessary until it is a great addition to the game.

To me, it depends on how they are deployed. If the units do it, they will be special support units.
Either way what I like is that they are something in between traps and spells. They need to be produced, yet have a one-time use with a spell-like effect.
The neat thing is that this is separate of your mana pool.
 
Likes: theHword

Nutter

Frost Weaver
WFTO Founder
Jan 19, 2013
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Huddersfield, UK
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#24
Wrath has Rituals (it gets the Sanctuary which you cast them in), Sloth obviously gets the Foundry and Defenses, so Greed gets Potions and the Alchemy lab. Why shouldn't greed get a main game mechanic? don't forget you'll (usually) be spec-ing down one main vein, so you might not have access to traps and potions at the same time.. or spells and rituals at the same time, etc.

EDIT - as someone already said, potions are different from spells in that they don't cost mana and have to be brewed in advance.. i.e you can use a spell immediately if you have the mana.. but can't use them at if you're out of mana, at that point having a few potions saved up might just save you.
 
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MixItUp

Dwarven Worker
Dec 12, 2013
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#25
The concept art is not that bad, but we have already a shamanic looking witch doctor, and i think crackpot looks more like from fairy tail. In my opinion he should look more like gremlin from HOMM V, it would need some changes, though. His coat could be more like lab coat but not white maybie dark blue or red. He definitely must have googles, red googles to protect his eyes from gases and fumes from that giant pots i lab. But the bottles should stay maybie hanging from his belt and throw out that cannon :D. I'd also change his boots or add holes for claws from feet. What do you say Underlords ?

 
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Bobby Rebholz

Concept Artist
Apr 2, 2013
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Cincinnati, Ohio
www.facebook.com
#28
A lot of the fun in designing characters is knowing that there is no clear cut way for a design. Each person can look at a character in any game and ask "Why does he have that instead of this? Why is he that color? Does he really have to carry this?" When looking at the design of characters or anything for that matter, nobody really knows the actual affect it will have until it is witnessed moving with sound effects and in its natural setting. The joy I get from designing these characters is knowing a love/hate relationship will follow from the public. At the end of the day and all pieces are moving, we developers can sit back and say "See I told ya so."
 

Rezal

Templar
WFTO Backer
Jan 11, 2013
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#29
A lot of the fun in designing characters is knowing that there is no clear cut way for a design. Each person can look at a character in any game and ask "Why does he have that instead of this? Why is he that color? Does he really have to carry this?" When looking at the design of characters or anything for that matter, nobody really knows the actual affect it will have until it is witnessed moving with sound effects and in its natural setting. The joy I get from designing these characters is knowing a love/hate relationship will follow from the public. At the end of the day and all pieces are moving, we developers can sit back and say "See I told ya so."

The joys of being an artiest.:D
 
Nov 13, 2013
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#31
For some reason, not having a ceiling in possession mode is starting to bug me a lot lol.
This, so much. The lack of a ceiling really breaks the immersion of possession mode, IMO. I'm really looking forward to when the devs get it into the game, and I'm curious how it will look in all the different rooms. I'm especially curious what the beast den ceiling will look like :).
 
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Simburgur

Managing Director
Brightrock Games
Nov 10, 2011
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www.twitter.com
#32
Hey guys,

Just to point out:
  • Spells use mana
    • Spells are meant to be 'right there and then' smaller actions that can be taken
    • Mana is a small resource bar (1000-1500, regenerates at 50/s after a 5s delay)
    • Mana is also used for other things, such as powering defences and picking up units
    • Generally, mana is meant to be a limiter on how much you can influence the world in any given short time window
  • Potions cost gold (some quite a significant amount) and time (again, some quite a significant amount) to produce
    • Potions are more like 'epic spells' which require some pre-planning and far more investment than a normal spell does
    • Gold, as you know, is a finite resource - aside from payday (which relatively speaking is going to have less of a financial impact than other DMGs - that's not a conversation for here though) gold is only ever spent by you, be that on a room, defence, or potion and once it's gone, it's gone
    • 'But the Alchemy Lab generates gold!' you say? Yes, only when it's not brewing potions - another tradeoff
    • And a final note on potions: Each Alchemy Lab prop can only brew and store one potion, and it stays there until it is used
 
Nov 13, 2013
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#33
Hey guys,

Just to point out:
  • Spells use mana
    • Spells are meant to be 'right there and then' smaller actions that can be taken
    • Mana is a small resource bar (1000-1500, regenerates at 50/s after a 5s delay)
    • Mana is also used for other things, such as powering defences and picking up units
    • Generally, mana is meant to be a limiter on how much you can influence the world in any given short time window
  • Potions cost gold (some quite a significant amount) and time (again, some quite a significant amount) to produce
    • Potions are more like 'epic spells' which require some pre-planning and far more investment than a normal spell does
    • Gold, as you know, is a finite resource - aside from payday (which relatively speaking is going to have less of a financial impact than other DMGs - that's not a conversation for here though) gold is only ever spent by you, be that on a room, defence, or potion and once it's gone, it's gone
    • 'But the Alchemy Lab generates gold!' you say? Yes, only when it's not brewing potions - another tradeoff
    • And a final note on potions: Each Alchemy Lab prop can only brew and store one potion, and it stays there until it is used
Thanks for the clarification Simburger :). The fact that the more potions you have in stock, the more props are "used up" is interesting since holding potions in reserve is a trade off by reducing your gold income. It seems like players could use the Lab functionally in two different ways; as either a gold mine, or a mega weapon stock.

Something that I am really curious about, what is the contents of the potions that Crackpots throw as their basic attack? Fire? Acid? Electrified and/or freezing liquid? Gases? Demecorn Rainbows? To be determined at a future date in development?
 

Simburgur

Managing Director
Brightrock Games
Nov 10, 2011
2,864
1,979
725
26
Brighton, UK
www.twitter.com
#34
Thanks for the clarification Simburger :). The fact that the more potions you have in stock, the more props are "used up" is interesting since holding potions in reserve is a trade off by reducing your gold income. It seems like players could use the Lab functionally in two different ways; as either a gold mine, or a mega weapon stock.

Something that I am really curious about, what is the contents of the potions that Crackpots throw as their basic attack? Fire? Acid? Electrified and/or freezing liquid? Gases? Demecorn Rainbows? To be determined at a future date in development?
Game of Thrones Season 2 Spoilers
 

Underlord Vulukai

Witch Doctor
WFTO Backer
Mar 11, 2013
666
351
440
The Void
www.youtube.com
#36
Hey guys,
    • 'But the Alchemy Lab generates gold!' you say? Yes, only when it's not brewing potions - another tradeoff
    • And a final note on potions: Each Alchemy Lab prop can only brew and store one potion, and it stays there until it is used
so if you have a brewed potion, can that prop still be used/accessed by crackpots to generate gold while a potion is stored in it, but not actively being brewed? Also, follow up question, will crackpots need to be actively working in the lab to produce gold or will there be a passive, small gain regardless of workstation use?
 

Simburgur

Managing Director
Brightrock Games
Nov 10, 2011
2,864
1,979
725
26
Brighton, UK
www.twitter.com
#38
so if you have a brewed potion, can that prop still be used/accessed by crackpots to generate gold while a potion is stored in it, but not actively being brewed? Also, follow up question, will crackpots need to be actively working in the lab to produce gold or will there be a passive, small gain regardless of workstation use?
It cannot be used. They need to be actively working the prop to generate gold.
Are Jesse and Heisenberg going to be in the name pool for the Crackpot?
No comment.
 

Mozared

Juggernaut
WFTO Founder
Feb 17, 2013
1,132
836
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#39
Quick note to those wondering about mechanics: the concept for the Alchemy Lab can be found in WFTOW 56 and as seen in it the props are basically giant cauldrons. I think I can go ahead and say that mechanically, these work pretty much as you'd logically (/visually) expect them to work: units interact with them to brew a potion which is then left and stored in the Cauldron, rendering it useless until the potion is used (picked up) and thus the Cauldron emptied.

It's a shimmering of good design and co-operation between in this case Simburgur and the art department.
 

Nutter

Frost Weaver
WFTO Founder
Jan 19, 2013
2,452
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Huddersfield, UK
nutter666.tumblr.com
#40
Those are some big ass caldrons though, So assuming you make a caldron full of potion, you either have some giant ass bottles lying around too, in which to put them in or you should have enough to be able to make more than one bottles worth from a single caldron? Logically I mean.. I get why not mechanically but from a logical point of view.
 
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