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Who else hates the glowing wall tiles?

Noontide

Designer / Community Manager
Brightrock Games
Dec 8, 2012
2,141
1,776
700
Brighton, UK
#2
Hi Valhallaist,

I'd certainly say you're not alone, there are quite a few others who dislike these often stating that they are too bright and distracting. We've certainly heard your plight and we're planning to make adjustments to these in the future, but it's unlikely to be in the next patch. We're not likely to do away with them completely, as they serve the important role of clearly indicating which player is in control of those particular walls.

Cheers,

Noontide
 

Castigator

Gargoyle
WFTO Backer
Dec 30, 2012
433
237
305
Germany
#3
Like Noontide said, there will be a gem with your team colour on top of your wall to indicate ownership. Whether or not it will still glow depends on how the glow can be dimmed, so it is still recognizable, but it doesn't distract you, because it's too shiny. Personally, I think it has to do with the contrast of the dark brown tiles, the generally dark ambiente, the black fog of war and the sparse lighting against these gems, that emit #00ff00 pure green. Green is very distinctive to our eyes and from multiplayer screenshots, I didn't get the impressions, that red #ff0000, or blue #0000ff were too bright. quite the opposite, I really liked the blue and red coloured gems.
I guess there is a way to adjust the percieved brightness, so that green doesn't look too bright, but red and blue don't look too dim.
Valhallaist, here is a depiction of the primary, secondary and tertiary colours of the RGB spectrum. What colour do you percieve to be the brightest?

 

Attachments

#5
Like Noontide said, there will be a gem with your team colour on top of your wall to indicate ownership. Whether or not it will still glow depends on how the glow can be dimmed, so it is still recognizable, but it doesn't distract you, because it's too shiny. Personally, I think it has to do with the contrast of the dark brown tiles, the generally dark ambiente, the black fog of war and the sparse lighting against these gems, that emit #00ff00 pure green. Green is very distinctive to our eyes and from multiplayer screenshots, I didn't get the impressions, that red #ff0000, or blue #0000ff were too bright. quite the opposite, I really liked the blue and red coloured gems.
I guess there is a way to adjust the percieved brightness, so that green doesn't look too bright, but red and blue don't look too dim.
Valhallaist, here is a depiction of the primary, secondary and tertiary colours of the RGB spectrum. What colour do you percieve to be the brightest?

All at the right (yellow, chartreuse green and green). Yellow feels the brightest.
 

Castigator

Gargoyle
WFTO Backer
Dec 30, 2012
433
237
305
Germany
#6
All at the right (yellow, chartreuse green and green). Yellow feels the brightest.
That matches with my observations. As you can see in the graph, the colours Yellow, Chartreuse Green and pure Green are percieved as very strong at the same time, while Cyan and Magenta are very noticeable when you focus on them. The colours on the right seem to fade a little, if you concentrate on the Cyan. That has to do with your eye and how it is built to percieve colour.
This results in things like impossible colours and is called hue cancellation, or opponent process.
 
Likes: Zilla
Mar 11, 2014
42
23
155
37
#7
Personally, I think the issue comes from the contrast. It seems to me the dungeon tiles aren't nearly bright enough in comparison to the gems. I'll be honest with you -- the first screenshot of WftO I saw, for a split second I thought it was a space game with colorful but uniform stars. Or a science fiction game more generally with shiny LEDs against a dark ship.

While I do think it's important that they be noticeable, it's probably less important than it sounds. Territory doesn't have any inherent value by itself and taking territory isn't usually an active thing. The imps tend to grab whatever tiles are in front of them whether you've noticed them yet or not. Once you have a general idea of where your enemy is in relation to you on the map, it shouldn't be that hard to infer if they're making inroads into your space -- if you're any kind of serious player, you'll usually notice an attack coming from that part of the map long before you get the "your (blank) is under attack!" message.

Not to mention that if the competing underlords are using different themes, it'll be readily noticeable anyway.
 

Zilla

Dwarven Worker
Mar 15, 2014
16
11
25
29
#8
So, I have a related but slightly different issue. I'm partially colorblind, and it wasn't easy for me to tell the difference between the red and green floor tiles. Part of it was that I was used to the Dungeon Keeper theme of red being yourself, whereas that is your opponent keeper's color in the tutorial map, but part of it was that the specific shades of red and green are a lot less saturated to my eyes, and appear as lighter and darker shades of a similar brown.

I'm actually a rather uncommon flavor of colorblind in that it's not as heavily impacting as it is to some, but this does warn me that someone who has a greater chromatic perception deficiency may have a much harder time than me.

Usually, this is solvable for me with a bit of a shift in hue, to ones that I more easily differentiate. However, it's probably best not to rely on color alone. Maybe each underlord could have a distinct shape as well as color. Green diamonds vs red circles vs blue moons, perhaps.
 

Psycix

Dryad
WFTO Founder
Jan 9, 2013
834
305
395
#9
I don't see the problem with the glowing wall tiles.
Sure, they used to be nothing more than gems or colored rocks, and have now become glowing sources of light. Change is scary, but WFTO is not a 1:1 clone.

Personally I think it is fitting, as it is a display of an underlords magical energy, while also visually beaconing the edge of his realm. Perhaps a little less bright and certainly less saturated.
The blue for example is extremely oversaturated and gives this hard RGB 0,0,255 look.
 

Castigator

Gargoyle
WFTO Backer
Dec 30, 2012
433
237
305
Germany
#10
I don't see the problem with the glowing wall tiles.
Sure, they used to be nothing more than gems or colored rocks, and have now become glowing sources of light. Change is scary, but WFTO is not a 1:1 clone.

Personally I think it is fitting, as it is a display of an underlords magical energy, while also visually beaconing the edge of his realm. Perhaps a little less bright and certainly less saturated.
The blue for example is extremely oversaturated and gives this hard RGB 0,0,255 look.
Don't. Touch. The. Saturation.
I rather like the deep blue, that only a good saturated colour can give. I would take it over the watered down colours of DK1 any time. I have suggested the possibility of an RGB colour selection tool at least twice in various threads, so players, that like their colours bold can have it their way, while people, wo prefer colour in the immediate vicinity of #808080 can have that too, if they want.
People, who are completely unfamiliar with the RGB colour system can learn it very quickly.
 
Likes: Zilla

Zilla

Dwarven Worker
Mar 15, 2014
16
11
25
29
#11
Planetside 2 added a color-selector, which helped mitigate their absolutely terrible colorblind player problem. It didn't fully solve it because squads are still hard-wired to be that shade of green that looks reddish to me. Poor squadmates...
 
#13
So, I have a related but slightly different issue. I'm partially colorblind, and it wasn't easy for me to tell the difference between the red and green floor tiles.
At some point before the final release we'll definitely do a pass to make sure the colours are clear for all players.
(I'm ~90% green deficient)
 

Noontide

Designer / Community Manager
Brightrock Games
Dec 8, 2012
2,141
1,776
700
Brighton, UK
#14
So, I have a related but slightly different issue. I'm partially colorblind, and it wasn't easy for me to tell the difference between the red and green floor tiles. Part of it was that I was used to the Dungeon Keeper theme of red being yourself, whereas that is your opponent keeper's color in the tutorial map, but part of it was that the specific shades of red and green are a lot less saturated to my eyes, and appear as lighter and darker shades of a similar brown.

I'm actually a rather uncommon flavor of colorblind in that it's not as heavily impacting as it is to some, but this does warn me that someone who has a greater chromatic perception deficiency may have a much harder time than me.

Usually, this is solvable for me with a bit of a shift in hue, to ones that I more easily differentiate. However, it's probably best not to rely on color alone. Maybe each underlord could have a distinct shape as well as color. Green diamonds vs red circles vs blue moons, perhaps.
Hi Zilla,

We'll certainly be exploring options with regards to colour-blindness, we want this game to be as accessible as possible for everyone and as one of our own team members suffers from partial colour-blindness we are aware of the challenges faced by individuals with it.

Edit: Ninja'd by James
 
Jan 4, 2013
264
147
290
30
Lancashire, UK
#16
just stick in an option to make them completely dull colours rather than lights. Thats what id want, i find having 682 neon glowing rave lights onb every single available surface in a dark dank and gloomy dungeon to be extremely counter to atmosphere and obnoxious.
 
Oct 17, 2013
181
59
175
37
#20
Like Noontide said, there will be a gem with your team colour on top of your wall to indicate ownership. Whether or not it will still glow depends on how the glow can be dimmed, so it is still recognizable, but it doesn't distract you, because it's too shiny. Personally, I think it has to do with the contrast of the dark brown tiles, the generally dark ambiente, the black fog of war and the sparse lighting against these gems, that emit #00ff00 pure green. Green is very distinctive to our eyes and from multiplayer screenshots, I didn't get the impressions, that red #ff0000, or blue #0000ff were too bright. quite the opposite, I really liked the blue and red coloured gems.
I guess there is a way to adjust the percieved brightness, so that green doesn't look too bright, but red and blue don't look too dim.
Valhallaist, here is a depiction of the primary, secondary and tertiary colours of the RGB spectrum. What colour do you percieve to be the brightest?

Very informative. Thanks for posting this!
 
Likes: Castigator
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